| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | How much should I charge as a freelance translator starting out? Thread poster: Louise Robinson (X)
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david henrion 
France
Local time: 13:45
Member (2010)
English to French
| Paying membership | Feb 19, 2019 |
Hi Louise,
Yes, I definitely think that becoming a paying member of proz would be a great asset for you. It would enable you to quote at the same time as other confirmed pros, this business is very often a race business.
| | | | david henrion
France
Local time: 13:45
Member (2010)
English to French
And I honestly think that 0.10 pounds, especially for French, is rather high. I work from French to English and I struggle getting more than 0.08€/word.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 12:45
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Some things to bear in mind | Feb 19, 2019 |
Louise Robinson wrote:
I have recently finished university
So, you've invested heavily in your forthcoming career. You need to look for some ROI, otherwise you might just as well have gone straight from school to flipping burgers.
My languages are French and Spanish which I appreciate is an already crowded market therefore prices may be lower than other languages.
There's also a vast quantity of work out there in those pairs. You are never, NEVER, going to be able to compete on price alone. There are probably millions of "hobby" translators in those pairs -- students, full-time workers doing a couple of hours in the evenings, bored carers, active retirees, those unemployed people who spent a couple of years studying a language at school -- they're all out there!
You shouldn't start off too low, as raising your rate will likely mean losing the client, which would be a waste if they're good. Better to spend more time marketing, studying, etc in the early days than going after every peanut-paying job. Don't expect to start off translating full-time. Unless you're very lucky it will be more famine than feast to start with. Don't feel you're being greedy, either. You should always aim to deliver a perfectly adequate translation, even from day one, so why should the client pay any less? If you hold out for the same rate as an experienced translator, you could well spend twice the time on the job (researching, checking, double-checking) that they would, so your effective hourly rate will be far lower. With experience will come a gradual hourly increase without any of the damaging rate changes. Of course, there's nothing against a few low-paid, easy jobs on the side while you build up your client base. The sites that offer work on a first-to-reply-gets-the-job basis are good as fillers as you aren't under any obligations, but don't let them become your number one clients.
Would many people recommend paying for a Proz membership? Are the majority of jobs limited to paying members only?
I think you need to have one preferred place for your professional shop-window, even if you'll search far more widely for clients. At least in the early stages, nobody will find your own website. ProZ.com is the biggest platform dedicated to our profession and so it makes sense to make it your "home". Very many of the jobs are unavailable or difficult for non-paying users to land, and those agencies that make it easy for the world to apply usually do so because they can't keep a stable database of happy translators. However, the most important source of jobs here is private client contact through your profile, and for that you need to be extremely visible. This means doing more than spending money, so check out the tips in the Site Guidance Centre. The KudoZ area of the site can be invaluable for beginners, both as Asker and Answerer. But treat your contributions as a way for you to both learn and give back to the community, rather than as a competition for points.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 13:45
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Louise Robinson wrote:
Would many people recommend paying for a Proz.com membership? Are the majority of jobs limited to paying members only?
Yes, the majority of jobs are limited to paying members. However, there are scores of paying members bidding on those jobs, so don't think it's likely that you will be able to out-bid those established translators even if you could bid at the same time as they do.
According to ProZ.com's staff, most jobs gotten via ProZ.com are gotten via translators' profile pages. Clients search for translators (e.g. using Google or using the ProZ.com directory search) and then visit their profile pages individually. Although some such clients do want the cheapest translator, they tend to evaluate you based on various aspects of your profile page.
So, my suggestion would be: don't get paid membership. Rather, improve your ranking or standing in other ways, and go search for clients yourself (instead of waiting for them to come to you). For example, visit the Blue Board and visit each and every agency listed on it.
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| Ask for more than you expect to get: Affordability vs. Exclusivity | Feb 19, 2019 |
Going_Price = Translator [min price] + Clients [max price] + Competitors [wholesale-retail price span] Who decides on your price of your services in your biz, I wonder?
For example, when patients come to a doctor, they don’t lecture him how to do his work better and at what price. Why should your prospects? (A) Working with more clients for less;
- or -
(B) Working with less clients for more? Not even a question, the latter. [I've been happily working with a few local direct clients for 10+ yrs.]
(A) “new”
- or -
(B) “old”? No dilemma either, because it's but a lame excuse for demanding more “discounts”. As far as dumping is neither a good start [both for the image and income], nor a competition advantage, why not (1) specify your [potential] clients’ needs and (2) set a fair – your* maximum retail price? Forever young, yet seasoned one)
It’s a pity so many even decent translators are rather poor businesspersons, making unfavorable decisions. Little wonder most beginners just copycat the pricing and business model as “we too!”, blindly going by the industry [competitors’] averages. Business is people and people are always different!
Of course, it’s easier than writing a business plan, watching trends, considering risks, offering post-buy customer support and so on for allegedly no prime/fixed [including ad/marketing]/variable/indirect costs, taxing, or planning required. Yet still without a vision, there’s no success. This is how a wannabe biz owner becomes a mere MT-mechanic working for greedy agencies, not a real freelancer working on his own terms as an expert at troubleshooting. The real biz is not selling, but rather building good relations Besides the business skills and talents, the big problem is unlike peoplework [as interpreters], in paperwork [as translators] it’s harder to communicate face-to-face and make new contacts. Such an isolation may turn out badly for translators.
Far not always there will be a second chance, especially for a trial and error approach in self-employment, so why not get prepared, consult with a specialist, and make a good start? Anyway, one should always know the absolute minimum and be ready to renegotiate or just walk away.
By the way, how about opening your own company/agency?
P.S. Diversification is a guarantee of stability: editing, copyrighting, rewriting, ghostwriting, trascreation, bloging, or interpreting, tutoring, consulting, and other non-translation biz activities
| | | | Vanda Nissen
Australia
Local time: 21:45
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
Hi Louise,
If I were you, I would have started with earning some Kudoz points first. It will help to kill two birds with one stone. First of all, membership in popular pairs like yours is not going to give you much without these points. This is how it works. More points mean better ranking.
Secondly, when you answer Kudoz questions, you gain credibility in the Proz.community which may bring you some networking opportunities and even paid projects.
I hope i... See more Hi Louise,
If I were you, I would have started with earning some Kudoz points first. It will help to kill two birds with one stone. First of all, membership in popular pairs like yours is not going to give you much without these points. This is how it works. More points mean better ranking.
Secondly, when you answer Kudoz questions, you gain credibility in the Proz.community which may bring you some networking opportunities and even paid projects.
I hope it helps. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 19:45
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Quote .08, consider down to .06 from time to time, give yourself six months, and see where that gets you. If some prospects accept without question, some prospects negotiate, and some prospects walk away, you're probably in the right ballpark.
So, my suggestion would be: don't get paid membership. Rather, improve your ranking or standing in other ways, and go search for clients yourself (instead of waiting for them to come to you). For example, visit the Blue Board and visit each and every agency listed on it.
This is bull. Membership is the most effective way to improve your search standing, and the first differentiator for the majority of prospects. And the day that I prefer to buy from a salesman at my door over going to the shop and peruse my options will be the day that roast ham flies.
[Edited at 2019-02-20 03:38 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 13:45
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Lincoln Hui wrote:
1. [Paying] membership is the most effective way to improve your search standing, and 2. [it is] the first differentiator for the majority of prospects.
I agree with Lincoln on point #1, although I'm not convinced about point #2.
Paying for membership sends a message to clients that you are not just dabbling in translation as a hobby. Still, if you look at the ProZians on the first few pages of non-members in a directory search you'll see many profiles that impress you.
Paying for membership will move you from the non-paying members portion of a directory search to the paying members portion, but how much such a move is worth in terms of money depends on the types of searches that clients do in the directory. At the top and bottom of directory search results are quick links to pages 1 to 5 of paying members and pages 1 to 5 of non-paying members, so if you're on page 6 of paying members, it's actually worse than being on 5 of non-paying members. You could say that if paying for membership doesn't get you to at least page 5 of paying members, it's money down the drain (and let's not forget: very few clients actually look at the bottom of page 5).
For searches for French-English translators (no other search criteria specified), paying membership will catapult you from page 800 of non-paying members to page 75 of paying members. For searches for English-French translators (top language combination, target native speaker, UK resident), paying membership will push you from page 75 of non-paying members to page 7 of paying members... all of which are below the "page 5" threshold.
However, earning KudoZ points will help you to move up: 41 points will get you to page 1 of paying members in the second search (105 points for page 1 of non-paying members). If you decide to pay for membership and you want to reach at least page 5 in the first search, you'll need to get 116 KudoZ points in addition to paying the money.
Added: to add to the confusion, the ProZ.com site refers to non-paying members as "non-members".
[Edited at 2019-02-20 08:47 GMT]
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
While ProZ is also running its biz and no guarantees, I just can't think of any good reason to be so obsessed with one source only. A smart fisher has several specialized tools at different spots, you know.
I don't mind rankings, yet the average rates at ProZ are wholesale prices--rather low and mostly agency-oriented, not to mention "fuzzy/repetition" discounts, easily turning the said $0.08 to $0.005 or lower--by default. Not my cup of tea! Of course, one coul... See more While ProZ is also running its biz and no guarantees, I just can't think of any good reason to be so obsessed with one source only. A smart fisher has several specialized tools at different spots, you know.
I don't mind rankings, yet the average rates at ProZ are wholesale prices--rather low and mostly agency-oriented, not to mention "fuzzy/repetition" discounts, easily turning the said $0.08 to $0.005 or lower--by default. Not my cup of tea! Of course, one could stand to own terms and prices, but due to low entry barriers, there're very many bottom-feeder translators...
In my case, checking several local offices [not agencies!] and switching to interpreting made me more good than 20+ job portals, making new good contacts.
By the way, how could one filter ProZ translators with $0.35+/word ?
[Edited at 2019-02-20 10:34 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Louise: learn Brazilian Portuguese + Samuel: thanks for reply | Feb 20, 2019 |
Louise: I've read this thread with interest as we share the same language pairs (French & Spanish>English). I've been around a while, but if I was just starting out and had these pairs, I would also seriously consider learning Brazilian Portuguese. Assuming you've got a pretty good mastery of these languages -- it should not be hard at all to "pick up" Brazilian Portuguese.
Why? I began my freelance translation career with the UN, so I occasionally will look at posts/jobs, etc. the... See more Louise: I've read this thread with interest as we share the same language pairs (French & Spanish>English). I've been around a while, but if I was just starting out and had these pairs, I would also seriously consider learning Brazilian Portuguese. Assuming you've got a pretty good mastery of these languages -- it should not be hard at all to "pick up" Brazilian Portuguese.
Why? I began my freelance translation career with the UN, so I occasionally will look at posts/jobs, etc. there as well as international organizations that are not part of the UN. From way back, in order to get a full time job you had to have two languages to translate into your mother tongue. I recently saw an ad for a full-time UN job and they wanted 3, not 2. I have no idea if this is a new trend or has been a trend for some time.
You are right: rates for these language pairs do seem to be low. But I don't want to discourage you as you are just starting out.
Samuel: Thanks for your details on what you meant by "top 25 French-English translators living in the UK."
Colleen ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 13:45
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| | Yes to membership | Feb 20, 2019 |
Membership is a no-brainer, it's only about £100, which you will recoup with your first job.
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Yoana Ivanova
Estonia
Local time: 14:45
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
Chris S wrote:
Membership is a no-brainer, it's only about £100, which you will recoup with your first job.
But I have to disagree with you, I took a look at your profile and you are definitely an established and experienced translator.
For someone just starting out (going mainly by my own experience here) it can take months to build a relatively strong profile and improve their ranking. I've only made about double what the Plus membership cost me through the clients I have met on Proz and there's tons of jobs I have no chance of getting, until I amass either many years of experience or earn enough Kudoz points to always rank on the first page.
There are still a lot of benefits to being a paying member, but it's a gamble for a beginner.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 12:45
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| The ability to find jobs isn't a gamble; it's an essential investment | Feb 20, 2019 |
Yoana Ivanova wrote: Chris S wrote:
Membership is a no-brainer, it's only about £100, which you will recoup with your first job. But I have to disagree with you, I took a look at your profile and you are definitely an established and experienced translator. For someone just starting out (going mainly by my own experience here) it can take months to build a relatively strong profile and improve their ranking. I've only made about double what the Plus membership cost me through the clients I have met on Proz and there's tons of jobs I have no chance of getting, until I amass either many years of experience or earn enough Kudoz points to always rank on the first page. There are still a lot of benefits to being a paying member, but it's a gamble for a beginner.
You have some quite low-volume pairs, Yoana, where there probably aren't that many jobs available. Once you get established you could quickly become the goto person, mind you. It's very different for the most common pairs, where you need to build a reputation slowly, but where if you don't get a good ROI from a $100 investment, you're probably in the wrong profession as there's a lot of volume out there.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, most of the time Chris - like other experienced translators - will be working with long-standing clients and new referrals, not relying on jobs from this site  . Paying membership is actually of more value to beginners as they have nothing but new clients to rely on. Even if you land a job, you probably won't get put on an agency's "preferred" list for some while, so yet another new client will be needed very soon after. On the other hand, even if you don't get the job you quote for, you could well find that your details are kept on file and you'll be called upon when the agency has a real need. Public holidays, weekends and prime holiday times are the most likely times.
Rather than paying out for ordinary membership, I'd strongly advise any beginner to invest just a little more in the Plus level of membership. It won't give you any advantage getting jobs, but there are some very important advantages in terms of "perks" such as a free CAT tool, a presence in various groups, free access to a whole raft of training materials, etc. Those aren't of great importance to established freelance translators but must be a massive advantage to newcomers.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 13:45
French to English
I would agree that if you want to quote on jobs here, you need to be a member. I once got a job within an hour of it being posted. I sent off a quote immediately and was given the job within about ten minutes, so the client was not waiting for everybody to send in their quotes to choose the best translator. I'd like to think they chose me for my brilliant profile, but the fact that I was one of the first to apply was probably the most important factor for that client.
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