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Remuneration for a translation self published by author
Thread poster: Virginie Pironin
Virginie Pironin
Virginie Pironin
Germany
Local time: 16:44
German to French
+ ...
Jul 16, 2020

Dear fellow translators,

I've been contacted by the author of a children’s book to translate it into French. The book is self published by the author and so will be the translation.
When I work with an editor, I get paid in royalties and get an advance when signing the contract/delivering the translation. How does that work when translating directly for the author? Have some of you already been aksed for that kind of job? Are there any specifics I should pay attention to b
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Dear fellow translators,

I've been contacted by the author of a children’s book to translate it into French. The book is self published by the author and so will be the translation.
When I work with an editor, I get paid in royalties and get an advance when signing the contract/delivering the translation. How does that work when translating directly for the author? Have some of you already been aksed for that kind of job? Are there any specifics I should pay attention to before accepting the job?

Thank you very much in advance for your answers!

Best

Virginie
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Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:44
French to English
. Jul 16, 2020

There's no guarantee whatsoever of any sales whatsoever. Just how many self-published books have ever become best-sellers? Factoring in that even best-selling authors don't make all that much money out of it, I would recommend asking to be paid at your normal per-word rate for non-literary translation. Depending on the length of the book, I would also recommend a heavy chunk to be paid in advance.

Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Tina Vonhof (X)
Philip Lees
Sheila Wilson
ahartje
Tom in London
Martin Lang
 
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:44
Spanish to English
+ ...
Those self-publishing authors Jul 16, 2020

They've knocked themselves out on their book and they're starry-eyed about international readership, but the last thing they want to do is pay for it to be translated.

I hardly ever go for jobs here, but there was a philosophy/ethics book going a month or so ago, and I e-mailed the university professor/thinker/philosopher concerned, asking for a look-see. He sent me the whole shebang, and I gave him a quote. Nothing further. It was only then I noticed he'd mentioned in the accompany
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They've knocked themselves out on their book and they're starry-eyed about international readership, but the last thing they want to do is pay for it to be translated.

I hardly ever go for jobs here, but there was a philosophy/ethics book going a month or so ago, and I e-mailed the university professor/thinker/philosopher concerned, asking for a look-see. He sent me the whole shebang, and I gave him a quote. Nothing further. It was only then I noticed he'd mentioned in the accompanying blurb that he had "no expectations of economic gain" from the book. Right. Which I believed in the same way I believe just about anything the current POTUS says. But if the illustrious author really wasn't going to make any money out of it (presumably this was an altruistic effort for the greater good), obviously no one else was.

Like Kay says - usual rate, and a big upfront figure. Me, I'd be tempted to overquote and charge 75% in advance, just in case they renege on the post-translation payment.

[Edited at 2020-07-16 10:51 GMT]
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Kevin Fulton
Jorge Payan
 
Platary (X)
Platary (X)
Local time: 16:44
German to French
+ ...
Some thoughts Jul 16, 2020

Bonjour Virginie,

In general, there is nothing to be expected from a self-publication. The same applies to a translation published in the same way. The contracts you know with real publishers usually do not apply here. This is only a private transaction between two people. In my opinion, it should be treated exactly like a translation with an end customer: payment per word, per page, it doesn't matter, but a fixed payment agreed at the outset and if possible with an advance payment
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Bonjour Virginie,

In general, there is nothing to be expected from a self-publication. The same applies to a translation published in the same way. The contracts you know with real publishers usually do not apply here. This is only a private transaction between two people. In my opinion, it should be treated exactly like a translation with an end customer: payment per word, per page, it doesn't matter, but a fixed payment agreed at the outset and if possible with an advance payment. No need to remind here, see the sections devoted to scams, all the possible traps of advance payments. Apart from these considerations, there is nothing to prevent the translation from being done under good conditions. Without expecting the slightest acknowledgement, with the only satisfaction of having enjoyed it.

Très bonne continuation !
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Kevin Fulton
Jorge Payan
 
Jo Macdonald
Jo Macdonald  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:44
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
Usual per word rate Jul 16, 2020

Do a few chapters per month, paid as soon as invoiced.
When paid do next chapters.


Tina Vonhof (X)
Michael Wetzel
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Sabine Braun
Philip Lees
Stevan Jevrić
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
 
DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
Why not consult with a lawyer? Jul 16, 2020

While there are many hidden reefs, the "per word" statement undermines any project, meaning literaly nothing--unless the rate includes research, adaptation, adjustment, review, localization, and so on.

Of course, it should be profitable for the very translator (make more than undereducated/hour), that's why I would strongly recommend calling a relevant lawyer or a business consultant.

[Edited at 2020-07-16 15:57 GMT]


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:44
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Successful people like to indulge in their ambitions Jul 17, 2020

My experience has been that some books -- both fiction and non-fiction -- are written with no real expectation of profit. Some authors are happy to break even and get some kudos from their peers, while others are quite aware that the money they pay out is never going to be recouped. One novel I was involved with had sold some copies in German, but nowhere near bestseller status. Nevertheless, the author had had it translated by a family member and paid me well to revise the English version. The ... See more
My experience has been that some books -- both fiction and non-fiction -- are written with no real expectation of profit. Some authors are happy to break even and get some kudos from their peers, while others are quite aware that the money they pay out is never going to be recouped. One novel I was involved with had sold some copies in German, but nowhere near bestseller status. Nevertheless, the author had had it translated by a family member and paid me well to revise the English version. The author was a medical science professor using a pseudonym to publish a novel she was proud of. She was quite well off and was doing it for herself. Some well-off people buy themselves an experience as a jet pilot or a schooner captain. Why not pay to become a published, translated author?Collapse


Arabic & More
Jorge Payan
Edwin den Boer
Cristina Bufi Poecksteiner, M.A.
 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:44
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I hate having to think up a title every time I post in a forum Jul 17, 2020

Virginie Pironin wrote:

....I get paid in royalties


Does your contract require your "editor" (I think you mean "publisher") to provide you with a monthly account of sales, on which to base your royalty payments? Do you actually receive these payments?


 
Virginie Pironin
Virginie Pironin
Germany
Local time: 16:44
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
- Jul 19, 2020

Thank you for all your answers!

[Edited at 2020-07-19 18:26 GMT]


 
Virginie Pironin
Virginie Pironin
Germany
Local time: 16:44
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
- Jul 19, 2020

Tom in London wrote:

Does your contract require your "editor" (I think you mean "publisher") to provide you with a monthly account of sales, on which to base your royalty payments? Do you actually receive these payments?



From publishers I get a yearly account of sales, and yes, I get paid accordingly. But here there would be no publisher involved, hence my question on how to manage the situation best.


Jorge Payan
 
philgoddard
philgoddard
United States
German to English
+ ...
Please don't agree royalties Jul 23, 2020

Unless your author is another J.K. Rowling, you'll get your fingers burnt.

Tom in London
celiacheung85
 
Daryo
Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:44
Serbian to English
+ ...
L'exception qui confirme la règle ? Jul 23, 2020

Adrien Esparron wrote:

Bonjour Virginie,

In general, there is nothing to be expected from a self-publication. The same applies to a translation published in the same way.
....

Très bonne continuation !


Kay Denney wrote:

There's no guarantee whatsoever of any sales whatsoever. Just how many self-published books have ever become best-sellers?


The Tale of Peter Rabbit by Beatrix Potter was rejected so many times she decided to self-publish 250 copies. It has now sold 45 million.

After 20 rejection letters, WM Paul Young self-publishes his novel The Shack. 15 million sales and a cultural phenomenon.

Rejected by all publishers in the UK and US, the author self-publishes his novel in Florence, Italy, using his own press in 1928. After being banned for nearly 30 years, Grove Press publish the controversial work in 1959. A year later Penguin finally launch the UK edition. The book quickly sells millions, as Lady Chatterly's Lover by D.H. Lawrence becomes a worldwide best-seller.
http://www.litrejections.com/best-sellers-initially-rejected/

I know of at least one self-translated/self-published book (into Serbian) that has made quite decent money (and few others that will never recover the cost of self-publishing)

You could gamble that your author is a future reincarnation of Beatrix Potter or J.K. Rowling, and ask to be paid in royalties - or play it safe - ask for a sizable advance payment and a contract giving you total ownership of the translation until you are paid in full.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:44
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Virginie Jul 24, 2020

Virginie Pironin wrote:
When I work with [a publisher], I get paid in royalties and get an advance when signing the contract/delivering the translation. How does that work when translating directly for the author?


A self-publishing author typically does not have the money available to pay you a large advance, so they're going to want to negotiate a much smaller advance, and possibly a higher royalty fee. It is important to realise that you are unlikely to see any royalties anyway, so whatever the advance amount is will be what you can expect to get paid for the job ultimately.

Since the self-publisher is just one person, they will not be able to market their book and your translation as effectively as a normal publisher, and the amount of money you'll get from royalties alone (or from a small advance plus royalties) is likely to be much less than if you had agreed to such terms with a normal publisher. Also, self-publishers are often tempted to participate in discount schemes, which means that the book will have high sales figures but low actual income from sales.

Some self-publishers are unaware of the advance, and believe that the translator should be satisfied with just royalties, but that would be just as big a mistake for you as with a normal publisher.

You'd have to make sure the self-publisher is aware that there is both an advance and royalties. Explain to the client that they must calculate royalties on their sales and start paying you royalties once the calculated amount exceeds the advance. Make sure the self-publisher understands that the advance isn't something that must be paid back if the book doesn't sell (some people do seem to think that). With a normal publisher, the publisher is an expert in how things work, but with a self-publisher, it is up to you to educate the client.

Basically, the situation is the same as with a normal publisher, except that the normal publisher knows how the process works already. And, as with a normal publisher, you are unlikely to receive any royalties anyway (i.e. the sales are unlikely to be so high that the royalties will exceed the advance).

The self-publisher may expect of you (spoken or unspoken) to help market the translation, and that is fine, but you won't get any additional remuneration for your marketing efforts.

If you are eager to work on the project, i.e. it will be partly a labour of love, one way to calculate the advance is by thinking of a low per-word rate and asking for that as an advance. For example, if the book is 25000 words long and you've decided on a low rate of USD 0.03 per word, you'd ask for a USD 750 advance, so that you'd start getting royalty payments once the calculated royalties exceed that amount.

How much royalties do you normally get from translating children's books? I'm told 1% (to up to 5%) of the cover price is about the average royalties earned by translators.

Added: Note that a number of colleagues in this thread used the word "advance" to mean that the client should pay before you start translating. This is, of course, different from what publishers call an "advance" on the royalties. Other colleagues have said "no royalties!" but I think they mean "no royalties without an advance". There is nothing wrong with royalties. What is wrong, is royalties without a non-refundable advance.

[Edited at 2020-07-24 09:27 GMT]


 
Michele Fauble
Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:44
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Self-publication success Jul 24, 2020

It’s rare, but it can happen.


“The Martian is a 2011 science fiction novel written by Andy Weir. ... It was originally self-published in 2011; Crown Publishing purchased the rights and re-released it in 2014. ... The Martian, a film adaptation directed by Ridley Scott and starring Matt Damon, was released in October 2015.�
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It’s rare, but it can happen.


“The Martian is a 2011 science fiction novel written by Andy Weir. ... It was originally self-published in 2011; Crown Publishing purchased the rights and re-released it in 2014. ... The Martian, a film adaptation directed by Ridley Scott and starring Matt Damon, was released in October 2015.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martian_(Weir_novel)
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Daryo
Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:44
Serbian to English
+ ...
You would be surprised ... Nov 28, 2020

Samuel Murray wrote:

Virginie Pironin wrote:
When I work with [a publisher], I get paid in royalties and get an advance when signing the contract/delivering the translation. How does that work when translating directly for the author?


A self-publishing author typically does not have the money available to pay you a large advance,

[Edited at 2020-07-24 09:27 GMT]


Human motivation is a strange beast, you would be surprised to know how far some people hell bent on self-publishing I stumbled upon would go just to have their work printed, even if there is no prospect of ever getting their money back.


 
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