| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Appropriate action to take in response to non-payment of invoice Thread poster: Mark Harris
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Michael Newton 
United States
Local time: 00:54
Japanese to English
+ ...
Before you go to the trouble of hiring a lawyer, give them a negative post on the Blue Board. If you follow the Blue Board assiduously (as I do), you will find that the bill gets paid instantly in very many cases. ("Payment was made immediately after posting").
| | | | 3089491 (X)
Luxembourg
Local time: 06:54
| ProZ.com staff is great | Mar 17, 2021 |
But if we can avoid them the trouble, why not?
Reiterated advice: send them the Blue Board message that you would publish unless they present solid proof of payment.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 06:54
Spanish to English
+ ...
It's only a bit of fun. This goes way back. Tom gives quite good advice, and I have given Tom many Agrees over the years. He gives me very few, on principle, I think. The thing is that, if you don't follow his advice to the letter, with no deviations, you're dead meat. And you've already done that, Mark, so consider yourself passively tominlondoned, Level 1.
I'm quite used to anything up to Level 4 on the official Tominlondoning scale, but irritatingly I have a hugely competent riv... See more It's only a bit of fun. This goes way back. Tom gives quite good advice, and I have given Tom many Agrees over the years. He gives me very few, on principle, I think. The thing is that, if you don't follow his advice to the letter, with no deviations, you're dead meat. And you've already done that, Mark, so consider yourself passively tominlondoned, Level 1.
I'm quite used to anything up to Level 4 on the official Tominlondoning scale, but irritatingly I have a hugely competent rival here, Chris S, who has been known to match me, and in fact surpass me. If you check out the very first post on the "Completely frivolous ..." thread, you'll understand.
Your very first word on your post, "So", in "So I have a customer who is very late paying an invoice I sent them ..." is particularly annoying for Tom, because "so" means "therefore", and so you can't use so like that, so you can't. In fact I seem to remember you got a Level 1 for that "so" right at the beginning, although he's edited it now. Which means you've had two Level 1s within a very short space of time without even trying. I admit Chris and I do try!!! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 07:54
Member
English to Turkish
| But for some reason... | Mar 17, 2021 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
but irritatingly I have a hugely competent rival here, Chris S, who has been known to match me, and in fact surpass me.
You get more aggro?
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| Don't believe him ... | Mar 17, 2021 |
Baran Keki wrote: Mervyn Henderson wrote:
but irritatingly I have a hugely competent rival here, Chris S, who has been known to match me, and in fact surpass me. You get more aggro?
... because all three characters (TiL, Mervyn and Chris) are one and the same character. They don't really exist! They were invented by proz.com to keep their members entertained and have them paid their annual membership fee. Actually, all three of them are an invention and featured by Andrew Morris. There are secret plans to offer merchandising articles (cups, T-shirts and snow globes) via the proz shop in summer with their pictures on it ... Come on, Andrew, put your agree beneath it, I know you are there!
[Bearbeitet am 2021-03-17 15:15 GMT]
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 06:54
Spanish to English
+ ...
Yes, it is this time. The suggestion, which I've seen before, of using the 10 days to find a local lawyer and have the lawyer ready to wade in and kick ass on a moment's notice, might be rather impractical and quite expensive.
Haven't we all been asked at some time to keep ourselves available for some mysterious job or other just around the corner, with nothing specified, no word count, no subject matter, no nothing, just Can you pencil this one in for whenever? Then it all falls a... See more Yes, it is this time. The suggestion, which I've seen before, of using the 10 days to find a local lawyer and have the lawyer ready to wade in and kick ass on a moment's notice, might be rather impractical and quite expensive.
Haven't we all been asked at some time to keep ourselves available for some mysterious job or other just around the corner, with nothing specified, no word count, no subject matter, no nothing, just Can you pencil this one in for whenever? Then it all falls apart, and they say Sorry, it all fell apart, they found it had already been translated / they went for another quote / they decided the translation wasn't necessary / they never replied.
And that's translators, who may or may not comply, but the silked ones may be much less likely to wait around on the starting blocks for the off. They might insist on a few of those billable hours meanwhile, whether their services are required or not.
There are, of course, more expedient measures that could be taken, hiring not a learned friend in the location concerned, but a totally unlearned friend with a baseball bat. I know, I know, it's against the law, but sometimes the law's against you, isn't it? Then again, I knew an agency owner who was owed thousands by a customer, and decided to do just that, hire a heavy. The heavy got caught, and both of them did six months for intimidation and GBH. Which the heavy didn't mind so much, because he'd been in and out of prison so many times he knew all the old lags, and it was like a second home to him. Not only did the owner of the agency lose the money he was owed, but he had to fork out six months' worth of protection by the heavy during their spell in the same joint.
[Edited at 2021-03-17 16:44 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-03-18 08:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 06:54
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Like Tunnel "Harry" in "The Great Escape" ... | Mar 17, 2021 |
... the Germans have rumbled us.
And yes, the following gift items are indeed available at the ProZ online shop, or at an outlet near you (but only if you happen to live in the vicinity of Syracuse, Buenos Aires or Kharkiv), as mugs, T-shirts or snow globes:
Tom, dressed as one of the Kray twins, snarling "I'll tominlondon you within an inch of your life, bodger!"
Chris S, with a mountain bike helmet on his head and a look of terror on his face, sayi... See more ... the Germans have rumbled us.
And yes, the following gift items are indeed available at the ProZ online shop, or at an outlet near you (but only if you happen to live in the vicinity of Syracuse, Buenos Aires or Kharkiv), as mugs, T-shirts or snow globes:
Tom, dressed as one of the Kray twins, snarling "I'll tominlondon you within an inch of your life, bodger!"
Chris S, with a mountain bike helmet on his head and a look of terror on his face, saying "Help me! I'm being mauled by a moggie on steroids!"
Mervyn, pointing a threatening index finger, saying "Eat Torres Oranges - if you know what's good for you."
At rockbottom prices, too. Snow globes twenty euros, mugs fifty euros, T-shirts one hundred euros (plus VAT - please, NO questions about UK VAT, thank you very much). Send all monies to a Spanish bank account. Details to follow.
[Edited at 2021-03-17 18:24 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mark Harris
France
Local time: 06:54
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Ok so, as suggested, I left a negative review on the Blue Board and raised a non-payment report as I hoped this would prompt them to pay me without the need to take legal action. Their response is to effectively blackmail me, demanding that I remove the review or they won't pay me at all, and they're also threatening to leave a negative review for me as well (I have no idea what justification they plan on inventing).
Any suggestions as to what I should do next?
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| Man or mouse | Mar 18, 2021 |
Well you either play hard ball and insist that they blink first, or blink first.
Only you can decide.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 06:54
Spanish to English
+ ...
Tom? ... Tom? ... I say, Tom? ... Are you there, Tom? ...
Oh dear, no reply. You see what happens when you don't do exactly as you're told?
What do you do? At this stage, you could do worse than telling them that, as you write, their dodgy practices are being actively but anonymously discussed here, but that the anonymity could well be ditched in the short to medium, and more like the short.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:54
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| So you didn't start the small claims thing? | Mar 18, 2021 |
Mark Harris wrote:
Any suggestions as to what I should do next?
If you've already decided that you won't be working together in future, stop playing nice. This is now a legal issue. Just serve the small claims writ already, with costs on top.
EDIT: The other thing is, and I know it's hard when jobs are in short supply, you should be extra-wary of agencies without much feedback on the Blue Board. This agency has only one piece of feedback on the Blue Board, and I can't find any mention of it on paymentpractices.net, or on the zahlungspraxis mailing list, or on the unacceptable translation rates LinkedIn group. That's not a good sign.
Dan
[Edited at 2021-03-18 16:23 GMT]
| | | | Mark Harris
France
Local time: 06:54
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | You're right | Mar 18, 2021 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
If you've already decided that you won't be working together in future, stop playing nice. This is now a legal issue. Just serve the small claims writ already, with costs on top.
Dan
Several people here suggested that launching a non-payment report often prompts people to pay without the hassle of legal action, so I thought it was worth a try. I'd already decided they were not people I wanted to work with any longer so it seemed worth a try. But you're right, it seems to have just aggravated the situation further, so I will go ahead and serve the small claims writ.
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| Stand your ground | Mar 18, 2021 |
Mark Harris wrote:
Ok so, as suggested, I left a negative review on the Blue Board and raised a non-payment report as I hoped this would prompt them to pay me without the need to take legal action. Their response is to effectively blackmail me, demanding that I remove the review or they won't pay me at all, and they're also threatening to leave a negative review for me as well (I have no idea what justification they plan on inventing).
Any suggestions as to what I should do next?
A would-be non-payer tried that with me once. I refused to delete the BB entry I had made (a 1, naturally). The outsourcer had implied that I had "prevented" her from paying by "not giving her a chance" to pay before I posted (payment was about two months overdue by that point, I think. Naughty me!) I hinted that I might edit the entry if I was paid; at that point, she coughed up. And, true to my word, I updated my entry by mentioning the fact that she had paid after trying to guilt-trip me into removing my entry, though I left it as a 1. After that, as if by magic, some 5s were hastily posted on her record by other translators. Clearly, she had called in some favours in an effort to "bury" my entry.
She angrily emailed me afterwards saying that the fact that mine was the only bad entry on her BB record said more about me than it did about her. But as I told her, my entry made it less likely that she would try pulling the same stunt with another translator, because two would look quite bad. Such is the power of the Blue Board: I say, use it!
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 05:54
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Inform ProZ.com staff | Mar 18, 2021 |
Mark Harris wrote:
Their response is to effectively blackmail me, demanding that I remove the review or they won't pay me at all, and they're also threatening to leave a negative review for me as well (I have no idea what justification they plan on inventing).
Any suggestions as to what I should do next?
Definitely: inform ProZ.com staff by copying everything to them. It's well against the rules and staff will most definitely follow up on it. Your client might actually have done you a favour, if they value the ability to post jobs on the site.
| | | | Mark Harris
France
Local time: 06:54
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Peter Shortall wrote:
A would-be non-payer tried that with me once. I refused to delete the BB entry I had made (a 1, naturally). The outsourcer had implied that I had "prevented" her from paying by "not giving her a chance" to pay before I posted (payment was about two months overdue by that point, I think. Naughty me!) I hinted that I might edit the entry if I was paid; at that point, she coughed up. And, true to my word, I updated my entry by mentioning the fact that she had paid after trying to guilt-trip me into removing my entry, though I left it as a 1. After that, as if by magic, some 5s were hastily posted on her record by other translators. Clearly, she had called in some favours in an effort to "bury" my entry.
She angrily emailed me afterwards saying that the fact that mine was the only bad entry on her BB record said more about me than it did about her. But as I told her, my entry made it less likely that she would try pulling the same stunt with another translator, because two would look quite bad. Such is the power of the Blue Board: I say, use it!
Yeah, I'm not planning on removing the Blue Board post, I don't want any other translators to have to go through this with them. I used it precisely as it's meant to be used.
I did consider hinting that I'd remove it if they paid me immediately, but to be honest I have no intention of doing so and I'm sick of emailing back and forth and getting nowhere. I'll just make a legal claim instead.
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