و الاستقلال عقب ذلك بما سيذكر كيف يذر

English translation: a true copy/ an identical duplicate of the only entry...

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Arabic term or phrase:و الاستقلال عقب ذلك بما سيذكر كيف يذر
English translation:a true copy/ an identical duplicate of the only entry...
Entered by: Ludina Sallam

19:20 Apr 1, 2021
Arabic to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs / Copy of Moroccan Marriage Certificate
Arabic term or phrase: و الاستقلال عقب ذلك بما سيذكر كيف يذر
الحمد لله وحده نسخة رسم نكاح - اخد ثمن كناش المختلفة (سجل ال وثائق المختلفة) رقم ... تحت عدد ... صحيفة ... بتاريخ ... ب (محكمة) توثيق ...(اسم المدينة)... و الاستقلال عقب ذلك بما سيذكر كيف يذكر لطالبتها السيدة ...(اسم الزوجة) ... المزدادة (المولودة) سنة .... الساكنة (اسم المدينة)

All of this comes at the very beginning of a copy of a marriage certificate from the Department of Justice, Court of Notarizations, in a city in Morocco.
Ludina Sallam
United States
Local time: 00:51
a true copy/ an identical duplicate of the only entry...
Explanation:
1. الاستقلال here means that the marriage certificate is the only entry in Record Book Nr. 00, Entry Nr. 00, Page Nr. 00. It exists INDEPENDENTLY of any other entry in that page i.e, there is no other entry concerning anybody in that page.

2. عقب ذلك بما سيذكر كيف يذكر means it is a 100 percent IDENTICAL or TRUE COPY or DUPLICATE COPY of the original as it exists in the court Record Book with not a sigle detail added or removed.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 17 hrs (2021-04-03 12:27:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

‍1. One fundamental thing to bear in mind is that all that jargon is specific to legal documents drafted by كتاب بالعدل, called ''adouls'' in this part of the world. They have a solid sharia background and they usually use a special jargon, phrases and syntactic structures that a modern notary public or the layman would call ''useless verbosity''. They actually don't have to use that type of jargon though they generally tend to. The other thing is that when they do, each is free to pick and choose the terms, phrases and structures they feel like to. Bottomline: most of it pertains to form rather than gist as one of them let me know.
2. The phonetic transcription of the word عقب is /akiba/ or /عakiba/ which means ''after that'' here and could also mean ''upon that'' in other contexts. I am sorry I am not familiar with using the keyboard for tashkeel, so I have opted otherwise.
3. According to the notary public I asked, the word الاستقلال in your text refers to the idea that it is the sole document in that page. Should you not feel comfortable with that, just like myself, you may consider omitting it altogether. More important than that is the notary public says it is a word to word identical copy of the entry which you cannot overlook.
Should you have further enquiries, please don't hesitate to ask.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 20 hrs (2021-04-03 15:40:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Do you confirm that there is nothing between (اسم المدينة)... و الاستقلال. i.e, that the word الاستقلال comes right after the city name?
What format is the certificate you are sent by the client? Are there no OCR issues in case it is a badly scanned copy?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 3 hrs (2021-04-03 23:08:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Please note that the suggestion above is exclusive of the phrase ''و الاستقلال عقب ذلك''. Therefore, discard item 3 above.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 8 hrs (2021-04-04 04:11:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And item 1 in the explanation.
Selected response from:

Saeed Najmi
Morocco
Local time: 07:51
Grading comment
So, the final correct answer is "and was issued independently after that as a totally identical copy of the original."

Also noted is that in the detail of the original question, اخد ثمن was not clear due to the poor copy of the original document, rather, it should be أخذت من (extracted from).
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1a true copy/ an identical duplicate of the only entry...
Saeed Najmi
4satisfaction/content/sufficiency
Z-Translations Translator


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
الاستقلال
satisfaction/content/sufficiency


Explanation:
الاستقلال= sufficiency ...../ it is enough then by what he will mention ...
بما = by what
سيذكر = he will mention / he will say
or سَيُذكر = will be mentioned / will be said
كيف يذكر = how he mentions/how he says




Z-Translations Translator
Local time: 18:51
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 8
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

16 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
a true copy/ an identical duplicate of the only entry...


Explanation:
1. الاستقلال here means that the marriage certificate is the only entry in Record Book Nr. 00, Entry Nr. 00, Page Nr. 00. It exists INDEPENDENTLY of any other entry in that page i.e, there is no other entry concerning anybody in that page.

2. عقب ذلك بما سيذكر كيف يذكر means it is a 100 percent IDENTICAL or TRUE COPY or DUPLICATE COPY of the original as it exists in the court Record Book with not a sigle detail added or removed.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 17 hrs (2021-04-03 12:27:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

‍1. One fundamental thing to bear in mind is that all that jargon is specific to legal documents drafted by كتاب بالعدل, called ''adouls'' in this part of the world. They have a solid sharia background and they usually use a special jargon, phrases and syntactic structures that a modern notary public or the layman would call ''useless verbosity''. They actually don't have to use that type of jargon though they generally tend to. The other thing is that when they do, each is free to pick and choose the terms, phrases and structures they feel like to. Bottomline: most of it pertains to form rather than gist as one of them let me know.
2. The phonetic transcription of the word عقب is /akiba/ or /عakiba/ which means ''after that'' here and could also mean ''upon that'' in other contexts. I am sorry I am not familiar with using the keyboard for tashkeel, so I have opted otherwise.
3. According to the notary public I asked, the word الاستقلال in your text refers to the idea that it is the sole document in that page. Should you not feel comfortable with that, just like myself, you may consider omitting it altogether. More important than that is the notary public says it is a word to word identical copy of the entry which you cannot overlook.
Should you have further enquiries, please don't hesitate to ask.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 20 hrs (2021-04-03 15:40:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Do you confirm that there is nothing between (اسم المدينة)... و الاستقلال. i.e, that the word الاستقلال comes right after the city name?
What format is the certificate you are sent by the client? Are there no OCR issues in case it is a badly scanned copy?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 3 hrs (2021-04-03 23:08:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Please note that the suggestion above is exclusive of the phrase ''و الاستقلال عقب ذلك''. Therefore, discard item 3 above.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 8 hrs (2021-04-04 04:11:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And item 1 in the explanation.

Saeed Najmi
Morocco
Local time: 07:51
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 27
Grading comment
So, the final correct answer is "and was issued independently after that as a totally identical copy of the original."

Also noted is that in the detail of the original question, اخد ثمن was not clear due to the poor copy of the original document, rather, it should be أخذت من (extracted from).
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hello Saeed, I just have one last question. I understand that the meaning as translated should be something like "an identical copy of the sole entry on this page has been made." However, I don't quite see how one can get to this meaning from the actual Arabic words. I mean, if I were to write it in Arabic I would say something like الوثيقة مستقلة في صحيفة واحدة و النسخة طبق الأصل لكل ما ذكر في الأصل I mean I don't see how those words in Arabic that they have can give the meaning you said. What tashkeel would you use on عقب for example? Thanks so much for your time!

Asker: Thank you for this detailed explanation and for your research about these words certainly which are verbose and confusing to say the least. Legalese! I originally thought it could mean something like نحن لا نتحمل أي مسؤولية (نحن مستقلون) عن محتويات (ما يذكر في) هذا المستند

Asker: Yes I confirm that the word الاستقلال comes right after the city name. It is a photo of a document so, yes, it is a little hard to read.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Hassan Achahbar: Great explanation Saeed! That verbosity as you called it is the reason why sworn translation is difficult in Morocco. It's impossible to know what those phrases mean without years of training with an actual legal translator.
1 day 6 hrs
  -> Thanks so much Hassan. Tough stuff indeed!
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