Xavas y trinxas

English translation: two groups of local layabouts

18:26 Oct 6, 2007
Catalan to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
Catalan term or phrase: Xavas y trinxas
Does anyone have any idea how to translate these terms into English? I think they are a mixture of Spanish and Catalan maybe.

Era la época en que los golfos del Guinardó hacían guerras de piedras en la plaza Sanllehy, y los xavas y trinxas incontrolados y sin colegio se colgaban en los enganches de los tranvías del disco
24

Thanks a lot in advance.
Rebecca Phillips
Local time: 13:26
English translation:two groups of local layabouts
Explanation:
xava is a way of speaking in certain areas of BCN. They speak with a very strong Spanish influence, for instance not differentiating between voiced s /z/ and voiceless s /s/

Also xava is the person who speaks xava.

I don't think I' translate the term into English, maybe you could say sth like "two low-class groups" and mention their cultural background.

trinxa = trinxeraire is a young person who wanders aimlessly with nothing to do , a layabout

I hope this helps.

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Note added at 40 mins (2007-10-06 19:06:58 GMT)
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as Berni says, they are both negative terms and are used sometimes also as insults. They do not have any sexual connotation, though... and are used for either men or women; the only connotation is that of lower class people, with no or very little education.

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Note added at 10 days (2007-10-17 16:07:43 GMT) Post-grading
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Thanks.
Selected response from:

Aïda Garcia Pons
United States
Local time: 05:26
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1two groups of local layabouts
Aïda Garcia Pons
3tarts and slags
Berni Armstrong
2More references
Sheila Hardie


  

Answers


31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
tarts and slags


Explanation:
Xavas can simply be "rough girls" - Trinxas I'm not sure of, but may be another negative term for young girls out on the town. I suspect the two terms refer to groups of lower class lasses hanging around outside discos etc. Depending on your target English, you might want to consider "Tarts and Slags" for a UK audience. Though I'm not sure the originals have the sexual echo that those terms imply. Though pre-feminist male terms for sexually active young women were nearly always negative.

My wife, who was a keen disco goer in 70s BCN, has never heard of either term.

Berni Armstrong
Spain
Local time: 14:26
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 10
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
More references


Explanation:
I think Aida has already given a good explanation - I just wanted to add these references in case they are of some help. I don't think there is an exact translation for either term to be honest.


There is an interesting discussion of the meaning of 'xava' in the following website:

En aquest thread (http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=96676), m'he fet "el lío padre" i em sembla que ja no entenc res.
Podrieu dir-me quina és la diferència entre parlar xava i parlar pijo?

xava

[variant de xaval]

1 adj i m LING Dit del parlar propi d'alguns sectors de Barcelona amb una clara influència del castellà, caracteritzat per una eliminació de les consonants sonores i de les vocals obertes i neutres.

2 adj i m i f Dit de la persona que parla xava.


http://forum.wordreference.com/archive/index.php/t-96854.htm...


And here is a definition of the term 'trinxa' or 'trinxeraire':

trinxeraire o trinxa
2 a Adolescent desemparat que va vagabundejant pels carrers.
b Persona de la classe baixa sense ofici ni benefici.

http://www.geocities.com/perpinya/dcs/dccat-t.html



HTH




Sheila

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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-10-06 21:33:47 GMT)
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Golf/trinxeraire

Golf: Part del mar que entra dins la costa. Vull anar al golf de Roses. // Esport que es practica en un camp de gespa. Practicar el gols és força car.

Trinxeraire: Persona jove que vagabundeja pels carrers robant objectes de poc valor i fer alguna altre malifeta. Aguell noi va acabar sent un trinxeraire, sense que la família ho sabés.


http://html.rincondelvago.com/sinonimos.html

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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-10-06 21:36:06 GMT)
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You could maybe translate 'trinxas' as 'louts' I imagine.


Tramp
Catalan (trinxeraire), Hungarian (csöves ). (references) ..... flotsam and jetsam, gadabout, good for nothing, hobo, hoodlum, hooligan, landloper, larrikin, ...
www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/tramp - 100k - Còpia en memòria - Pàgines semblants
Lout
Catalan (trinxeraire). (references) .... хулиган (bully, butch, hood, hoodlum, hooligan, punk, rough, roughneck, rowdy, tearaway, yob), нахакан човек ...
www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/lout - 56k - Còpia en memòria - Pàgines semblants

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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-10-06 21:40:16 GMT)
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I was just thinking about the similarity of the word 'xava' (plural 'xaves' in Catalan and not 'xavas' I suppose) and the word 'chav' in English. And I came across this interesting article:

Els xaves ara es diuen chavs i surten d'Anglaterra (de les barriades i suburbis d'Anglaterra). Són de classe baixa i volen estirar més el braç que la màniga. Porten gorres de beisbol amb el típic quadriculat de la Burberry, sabatilles de tennis blanques immaculades, millor si són reebok. Les noies chav s'operen els pits -o admiren noies amb el pit operat- i es pengen arracades d'or en forma d'osset, pallasso, nina...tots, nois i noies chav, van vestits de marca (però que es vegi ben grossa la marca) i duen anells de moneda, grosses cadenes d'or estil equipo A i cotxes tunejats. La gent se'n fot dels chavs....Pur classisme anglès?


Abans a Catalunya també hi havia chavs (xaves, en el sentit original del terme). Avui dia, els que anomenem xaves, si existeixen, són de classe alta, estiuegen a la Catalunya profunda i només són xaves els caps de setmana, quan es posa en evidència el mal català que parlen, però als anys vint els xaves eren els habitants dels barris obrers de Barcelona, que parlaven una llengua rica, plena de manlleus del parlar gitano, i que vivien una vida marginal, per això el terme xava, com el chav anglès actual, també era classista (vegeu el llibre La Xava, de Juli Vallmitjana). Si aneu a alguna de les moltes pàgines web que el moviment chav ha fet sorgir a la xarxa descobrireu que l'origen del mot anglès chav és idèntic al del mot català xava: noi en caló. A Anglaterra ja han sorgit veus crítiques amb l'ús d'aquest terme, que molts troben classista i fins i tot racista (en senyalar el riure que fa la gent pobre quan vol semblar rica). Fa un parell d'anys, la firma de roba Burberry va retirar del mercat la gorra de beisbol amb el típic quadriculat de la casa, perquè s'havia convertit en un símbol chav, cosa que els perjudicava. Però no tots els chavs (o xaves) són de l'extrarradi: una de les icones del moviment és el matrimoni Beckham! A Catalunya, que sempre estem a punt d'apuntar-nos a qualsevol moda que vingui de l'exterior, encara no es parla de chavs, potser justament perquè el terme s'assembla massa al xava, sona massa català. Però la subcultura chav, els xarons, els horteres, amb nom de tribu o sense, ja fa temps que existeixen i que es belluguen amb els seus casets sorollosos, els seus cotxes tunejats, les seves joies daurades i les seves sabatilles blanques. Els trobareu als aparcaments dels grans centres comercials, a les places d'algunes ciutats, a les escales d'alguns blocs de pisos... i aquestes festes potser fent cua al Dragon Kahn de Port Aventura.


http://blocs.mesvilaweb.cat/node/comment/id/33367

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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-10-06 21:42:54 GMT)
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Just wanted to highlight one bit of the above text:

Si aneu a alguna de les moltes pàgines web que el moviment chav ha fet sorgir a la xarxa descobrireu que ***l'origen del mot anglès chav és idèntic al del mot català xava: noi en caló.***

So, the two words do appear to be related - etymologically at least. Still not sure if you could translate 'xava' as 'chav', but maybe.


HTH


Sheila

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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-10-06 21:47:30 GMT)
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3rd May 2007, 01:59 PM
The now very well-known word "chav (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav)" (unheard of by most people here just a few years ago) is said to come from the Romani word "chavi" meaning "male child". In Spanish, "chaval" has the same meaning (i.e. "boy", "lad", etc) and also comes from gypsy language.
TraductoraPobleSec
3rd May 2007, 02:09 PM
How funny!

And here in Barcelona there are the xavas and xava talk http://ec.grec.net/lexicx.jsp?GECART=0144228 which would be the Catalan version of the Cockneys (more or less - for you to have an idea).

Both Catalan and Spanish are very influenced by caló (the language of the gypsies) and many words we use daily have that origin (calers, paio, gilipollas...)
Outsider
3rd May 2007, 03:20 PM
Chaval and chavala also exist in Portuguese slang.

http://forum.wordreference.com/archive/index.php/t-490679.ht...

A very full explanation of 'chav' given here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav


So, maybe you could translate 'xavas i trinxas' by 'yobs' or 'chavs' and 'louts'.



Sheila Hardie
Spain
Local time: 14:26
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
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32 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
two groups of local layabouts


Explanation:
xava is a way of speaking in certain areas of BCN. They speak with a very strong Spanish influence, for instance not differentiating between voiced s /z/ and voiceless s /s/

Also xava is the person who speaks xava.

I don't think I' translate the term into English, maybe you could say sth like "two low-class groups" and mention their cultural background.

trinxa = trinxeraire is a young person who wanders aimlessly with nothing to do , a layabout

I hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2007-10-06 19:06:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

as Berni says, they are both negative terms and are used sometimes also as insults. They do not have any sexual connotation, though... and are used for either men or women; the only connotation is that of lower class people, with no or very little education.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 days (2007-10-17 16:07:43 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks.

Aïda Garcia Pons
United States
Local time: 05:26
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in CatalanCatalan, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Veronica Lambert Hall: I confirm that xava is a somewhat derogatory name given to people from BCN. I don't know about trinxes, though. PS. I live in Girona ;-)
2 hrs
  -> Gràcies Veronica. Xava's not just being from BCN (although this is, I believe, what people from Girona call us ;) )is also one who speaks Catalan with a strong Spanish influence/accent. Trinxa (es) is the short form of trinxeraire. Bon cap de setmana!
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