This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
English to Spanish translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Music / Band
English term or phrase:Play a Bb concert scale
In a brochure for summer band "camp," requirements are: "Students with 1 year of band are expected to perform a Bb concert scale and a 1-octave chromatic scale. Students with 2 years of experience are expected to perform a Bb, F, Eb and Ab concert scales and a 1-octave chromatic scale. Students with 3-4 years of experience are expected to perform the MTSBOA Mid-State scale requirements."
If I understand correctly, if they play an instrument tuned to a different key than the piano, etc., then they must know which key corresponds so they will play the scale and be in tune with the other instruments as they also play the scale in B-flat.
I have looked up several ways of saying it in Google with no results. Would any of these below work, or is there an official way of saying it?
Tocar una escala de Si bemol para concierto? Tocar una escala de concierto en Si bemol?
Is this good? Se espera que los alumnos con un año de Banda toquen una escala que esté afinada a Bb (Si bemol) de concierto y una escala cromática de una octava.
Explanation: Playing a scale in Bb concert means that it refers to the conventional tonality. Some instruments are tuned in different tonalities than the piano, for example, the alto saxophone is tuned in Eb (E-flat), which means that when a C is played on that instrument the sound it produces is an E-flat. For example, if you are a saxophonist and someone tells you that you are going to play a tune in Eb concert, then you will know that you must play in the tonality of C in the saxophone. Other instruments, like piano will be playing the tune in Eb.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 hrs (2020-02-14 03:43:44 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Just for clarification. You can also find some references of the phrase "de concierto" but I'm a musician, and for me is completely normal to hear this expression, "Tocar en Bb concierto". "Tocar en Bb de concierto" doesn't sound very good to me.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 hrs (2020-02-14 04:23:11 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Here I found a reference: "Esta composición es un Rhythm Changes, de una estructura armónica de 32 compases, en Bb concierto; a continuación se detallarán los fragmentos analizados", (page 25) this is a pdf file, here is the link: http://dspace.ucuenca.edu.ec/bitstream/123456789/25839/1/TES...
Thanks. I used both Si bemol and Bb for clarification, since one is Spanish and the other is what is used at school. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Concuerdo que en el ámbito que planteas, donde además sin duda se va a utilizar la nomenclatura sajona (Bb; Bbma7) versus la estándar (Si bemol; SibM7), cabe aproximar el lenguaje de la traducción al que será finalmente utilizado en la escuela. Lo que se les pide, efectivamente, parece ser el ser capaces de tocar una escala en la tonalidad de Si bemol mayor (Bb) "real" o (de) concierto, así como una escala cromática (una sola octava), se entiende que en la misma tonalidad. Esto es, se les pide ser capaces de tocar en DoM a aquellos con instrumentos afinados en Si bemol y en SolM a los afinados en Mi bemol, por ejemplo.
Sobre tono versus tonalidad, como ya apuntado, son conceptos diferentes; tono de concierto alude al sonido "la" de referencia que sirve para hacer la última afinación previo al inicio de un concierto, tal y como explicado en el enlace de Rodrigo. Sólo está conceptualmente relacionado con la tonalidad real (de concierto) de una obra o pasaje, en tanto que "concert" hace aquí alusión a la referencia para los demás instrumentos. Aquí no se habla de tono sino de tonalidad.
Molly, in my opinion this is a good solution. The links I included in my last comment refer to "Tono" instead of "Tonalidad" because it is the translation of "Concert pitch", "Tonalidad" is a broader concept. If you say "Tonalidad concierto" or "Tonalidad de concierto", I think both would work. Also, if you refer to the specific tonality, like "Bb (si bemol) concierto" or "Bb (si bemol) de concierto", I think both are fine, although the first one is more familiar to me. I think the important thing about the word "concierto" (and that's probably where it comes from) is that when the conductor starts a rehearsal he's going to say, "well, let's warm up, let's do some scales, let's start with a concert Bb scale", this is easier than having to name the scale that each instrument should play.
We have many families from Central and South America, the Carribean, and also some from Spain. We are a very diverse school district. They call summer workshops "camps," but they are nothing like a camp. This particular experience will be 6 hours per day for 9 days in the summer, and they will end it by playing a concert. The term I am asking about is requirements for who can attend.
Since in the same sentence the students are required to perform a chromatic scale they must also play a scale in (certain keys) concert, I believe they are talking about playing a literal scale as a test to see if they qualify to attend this workshop, rather than playing a piece in those keys. My suggested translation includes both ways of saying it so that people from different places can understand (being as grammatically correct as possible). The "camp" will all be in English, so I think using "tonalidad" for correctness in Spanish and "concierto" will help them make the connection.
I also think they will not have to transpose any music, but rather just read their own scores in the key for their particular instruments. I understand that is how it is usually done.
@Chema, el tema es interesante. Si me tocase a mí tomar una decisión, dependería del tipo de evento al que está destinado. Como he tenido experiencia en el área de Jazz tomaría las convenciones en este tipo de música, no como un error por facilidad, sino como una convención propia del género. Las convenciones para acordes en el Jazz es diversa, hay varias formas, por ejemplo, GMa7, Gmaj7, G∆. En el caso de acordes menores Gmin7, G-7, Gm7. La convención anglosajona se ha hecho usual para este tipo de música y para la música popular, probablemente por la comodidad de utilizar pocas letras a la hora de colocar los cifrados sobre las partituras. Sería poco práctico utilizar en una partitura de Jazz o una canción "Sol mayor con séptima mayor" para cifrar un acorde de la pieza. Ahora bien, si el evento es de música académica es posible que sea mejor utilizar otro término. Conseguí otros links para beneficio de quien lo necesite, se hace referencia a "Tono de concierto", "Tono de cámara", "Tono normal, "Tono de diapasón"; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch ; https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tono_de_concierto ; Saludos
Hola En el pdf que adjuntas en respuesta se hace referencia a Bb concierto, Bbmi7 concierto, Bbma7 concierto, Bb mayor concierto, Bb7 concierto, Bb menor concierto, Dbma7 concierto, Ebma7 concierto o Gma7 concierto, entre muchas otras. Gma7 concierto es traducción literal de GMA7 concert, en referencia en este caso al acorde en tonalidad "real" o de concierto.
Entiendo perfectamente que en ámbito de jazz y en los EEUU -o cerca- resulte mucho más fácil no sólo mantener expresiones literales como "concierto" o como la propia notación americana versus su traducción (Bb versus Si bemol). Dependerá, claro, del público diana de Molly. A mí lo de Bb concierto me resulta raro en cualquier caso (salvo que lo "piense" en inglés), pero vaya, eso sí que es sólo cuestión de experiencia personal. ... in the three keys. These are BbMA7, EbMA7 and FMA7 concert (your [baritone sax] GMA7, CMA7 and DMA7) https://books.google.es/books?id=U3GJ2P4aWf8C&pg=PA10&lpg=PA...
@Chema, I included a pdf with a concrete reference. For me it's not weird, this is the language I've heard among jazz musicians here in Venezuela, most of them with studies in the United States. I think it's also usual among Spanish speakers musicians in the US. I don't know if in Spain is different. I must admit that I was surprised not to find many examples of a formulation that for me is daily language. I also found "Tonalidad de concierto" but I think it sounds a little academic. Also as I said, "tonalidad real" is fine, I just haven't heard it that often.
You are right. And yet, escala de concierto sounds weird. Tonalidad de concierto maybe. Instead of tocar una escala en Bb, F, Eb y Ab (Si bemol, Fa, Mi bemol, La bemol) concierto maybe tocar en escala (real o) de concierto de Si bemol Mayor, Fa Mayor, Mi bemol Mayor y La bemol Mayor
Anyhow, I have also played in different bands in Spain (mostly piano and keyboards but also guitar and tenor sax) and I have never used or heard a specific name for concert scale; I would just say en qué estás tocando and make my own calculations depending on the other guy's instrument and my own. Someone may ask y qué es eso en piano, meaning "what is the concert scale" ("what is the key for a non transposing instrument"). But of course this is not Molly's context and so we must give her a proper and understandable name for her to use. I think her solution of using tonalidad real o de concierto might well work in Spanish.
Mira la partitura del enlace anexo. Es tan sólo un ejemplo (es el inicio orquestal de la música de piratas del Caribe). Fíjate en cómo cada instrumento leerá su parte en la tonalidad correspondiente en función de su afinación particular. En este caso la tonalidad "real" (la concert scale en base a la que cada instrumento verá adaptada su propia tonalidad) se correspondería con la tonalidad del violín (FaM en este caso). https://www.virtualsheetmusic.com/score/HL-321371.html
Ese "do" que haces aparecer en respuesta parece un error derivado tal vez del ejemplo anotado de la trompeta afinada en Si bemol. Fíjate de nuevo en el ejemplo previo donde otras tonalidades utilizadas por distintos instrumentos, además de Fa Mayor, serán Sol Mayor o Re Mayor.
This would be my try: "Se espera que los estudiantes con 1 año de (experiencia en) banda interpreten (toquen) una escala de (en) Bb concierto y una escala cromática de una octava. Se espera que los estudiantes con 2 años de experiencia interpreten una escala de (en) Bb, F, Eb y Ab (Si bemol, Fa, Mi bemol, La bemol) concierto y una escala cromática de una octava. Se espera que los estudiantes con 3-4 años de experiencia interpreten los requisitos de escalas de la MTSBOA Mid-State". I think that the term “tonalidad real” is conceptually correct, but it's unusual for me to hear it. I am a saxophone player and have played in jazz bands, and in my country and in the environment where I have worked and studied as a musician it is usual to use the term "concierto" to refer to the conventional tonality. Transposing instruments must then transpose to the appropriate scale according to the way they are tuned. For example, if I hear that I have to play a concert Bb scale in my alto saxophone, then I would have to transpose a minor third below this note, so I will play a G scale on the saxophone. I hope this is helpful.
En fin, no te lío más. I am afraid "tonalidad del concierto" is used, bit not with an equivalent meaning -although nota probably with a similar original idea, this is, meaning the key of the concert; i.e. concierto para xxx y orquesta en Mi menor. This does not mean that all instruments will be reading a partiture in E minor. Well, tonalidad "real" sounds as the most natural to me so far. Tonalidad real o de concierto sounds like it might help the reader understand what you mean.
* aunque en ocasiones tonalidad de concierto se utiliza erróneamente con el sentido de tono de concierto (que es un concepto diferente), sí he encontrado un puñado de ejemplos con un uso equivalente a concert scale -aunque sólo un puñado para ser sincero.
La obra puede contener dentro de su plantilla orquestal hasta tres (03) instrumentos de corte popular venezolano (Ej.: cuatro, mandolina, bandola llanera, arpa, percusión afro-venezolana, etc.). Nota: La partitura deberá estar escrita en tonalidad de concierto (Partitura en DO). http://www.accompositors.com/boletines.php?idBoletin=45
En el caso de que una parte de instrumento transpositor se pueda escribir con sostenidos o bemoles, Sibelius permite utilizar la armadura resultante de la transposición de la tonalidad de concierto o simplificar la armadura a su equivalente enarmónico https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://...
Hi Molly, I think you should not translate "scale" in "concert scale" as "escala". In Spanish, tocar una escala en si bemol is weird for it means you expect the pupils to play just seven notes ("una escala"). That is not the intended original meaning -I believe.
If you feel more comfortable bringing up "de concierto", just skip "escala" in your last try:
... toquen en tonalidad real (o de “concierto”) de Si bemol mayor (...)
It means you should be able to play in the corresponding key -depending on your musical instrument- to a piano B flat key. Recordemos que la tuba está en si bemol, lo que significa que el siguiente fragmento escrito en Do mayor tendría una tonalidad real de Si bemol mayor. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...
Actually, tonalidad de concierto is probably the equivalent term we are looking for.
Does this sound better? ... toquen una escala de Si bemol mayor (tonalidad real, o “B♭ concierto”) ... A los estudiantes con dos años de Banda se espera que toquen una escala en tonalidad real (o de “concierto”) de Si bemol mayor, Fa (F) mayor, Mi bemol (E♭) mayor y La bemol (A♭) mayor ... Or perhaps clarify with: una escala que corresponde a la tonalidad de concierto Si bemol mayor, Fa mayor, etc. I didn't realize it would be so complicated to say this right.
First of all, thanks Chema. How about this: Se espera que los alumnos con un año de Banda toquen una escala de Si bemol mayor en tonalidad real (o en “Bb concierto”) y una escala cromática de una octava.
It is only that we don't seem to have a name for concert scale (as far as I can think of). Escala concierto sounds just as a literal translation from an English text. Tonalidad real finds just a few hits though. You may also refer to tocar en si bemol mayor (tono real), as a way to refer to the already transposed corresponding key for each instrument (for the piano that would mean an actual B flat scale; for a B flat trumpet that would mean to be able to play in C mayor).
Juan Barrera, Chema, Rodrigo's answers all helpful
17:09 Feb 14, 2020
These all help me to understand the concept. I play piano but am not familiar with other instruments or bands and orchestra. I understand what playing a scale is: do re mi fa sol la si/ti do, for however many octaves, up and down, parallel or split between 2 hands (on piano, anyway), major, minor, etc. Playing a scale is not the same as transposing to another key, or playing from a score that has been transposed. So it looks like Rodrigo Yanez's answer (Juan Barrera a close second) is the one I am looking for **in this context.** I just don't know why google shows 0 hits. Playing scales with dexterity (in all or several keys) is a basic for any instrument, I'm sure.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
25 mins confidence:
play a bb concert scale
tocar un concierto en la escala/tono bb(si bemol mayor)
Tocar/interpretar una escala transpuesta a la tonalidad de Si bemol mayor (Bb)
Explanation: The process you talk about is called transposition. If they are saying the band students need to play a Bb concert scale, it means they'll transpose to that tone.
...se espera que interpreten una escala transpuesta a la tonalidad de Si Bemol Mayor (Bb)."
Juan Gerardo Barrera Covarrubias (X) Mexico Local time: 19:16 Native speaker of: Spanish