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French to English translations [PRO] Science - Wine / Oenology / Viticulture / Adventure Park
French term or phrase:fumiers
This text is about a vineyard:
Leur volonté de développement durable les incite à pratiquer une agriculture raisonnée, utilisant uniquement des fumures organiques (dont les ***fumiers*** issus de pailles d’orge produites sur les terres du domaine) en utilisant le moins possible de produits phytosanitaires
I'm a city girl, so this may seem like a very dumb question to some of you, but here goes. Is "fumiers" used here to mean "manure" in the traditional sense, i.e. farm animal poop, as in the animal eats the barley straw and then poops it out, or is it "green manure," i.e.mulch? Or something completely different?
Explanation: Organic Manures - BigHaat www.bighaat.com › pages › organic... Traduire cette page Organic Manures 1. What are organic manures? Organic manures are natural products used by farmers to provide food (plant nutrients) for the crop plants.
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Green manures / fertilizer also as suggested by Nicky. www.rhs.org.uk › advice › profile Traduire cette page Green manures are fast-growing plants sown to cover bare soil. Often used in the vegetable garden, their foliage smothers weeds and their roots prevent soil ...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 jour 6 heures (2020-06-10 23:30:33 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Understanding Vineyard Soils books.google.fr › books - Traduire cette page Farm animal manures must be composted or be followed by at least two green ... The manure most commonly used in vineyards is poultry manure, followed by ... Robert White - 2009 - Technology & Engineering
It's definitely not 1 and most likely 3, but I don't want to ask my client any more poo-related questions ;-) I awarded the points to the perhaps not ideal answer because what I really wanted to know was whether I could use "mulch" in my translation, or whether that would be wrong because it was "real" manure. Agreed that the source text isn't well written, but hopefully the English translation will read a lot better!
Is the barley grown specifically to obtain barley straw to mix in with manure? Not likely. Is the barley straw mixed in with manure instead of being thrown away? Possibly. Is the barley straw used as animal bedding, after which it's de facto part of the resulting manure since you can't separate the excrement from the straw? Likely.
Which is it? In all three cases the chosen answer is wrong, with all due respect. And the FR wording is still clumsy and confusing (as this discussion and the answers show).
I know I'm being nitpicky and we all have better things to do, but after spending so much time on this question, I'd like some clarity.
Maybe it's a moot point now the question's closed, but what precisely did your client confirm? Is this farmyard manure after all (as Yvonne in fact suggested early on in the discussion)? Manure is organic by definition, while organic fertilizer is a broader category, and green manure is not manure at all. So what exactly are we talking about here?
The client has just confirmed -- there is indeed poo in it!
ph-b (X)
France
Wolf,
15:57 Jun 13, 2020
You wrote: "Manure from barley straw" doesn't make sense. Nothing special about barley straw and it's not used specifically to make manure or even compost." Doesn't make sense? Nothing special about barley straw? Not used specifically to make manure? Mmh.. Let's get back to the source text, shall we? ...des fumures organiques (dont [among which, from which] les fumiers[manure(s)] issus de [produced/coming from] pailles d’orge [barley straw]... Wolf, as Yvonne herself put it: "Barley straw could also be used as bedding, which the animals could "poop" on and could then be forked out and put into a heap to break down as manure."
Yes! This is one for the client. You haven't said how many animals they have, if they have a "farmyard" and whether there is access to dung or not. But one thing is certain, this is NOT "green manure". I believe barley straw is more commonly used as a mulch in vineyards but it's possible, as I said, that it's used as animal bedding and then rotted down to manure. And I am quite expert in all these techniques as I have been growing organically myself for over 30 years now (and surrounded by farms where I live). I have grown oats to get straw as a mulch for my strawberries (guess why they are called that?) allowing the birds to eat the grains as I don't have threshing/milling facilities.
This discussion is absolutely fascinating! Thank you, everyone, for your input! I've learned so much but I'm still on the fence. I think I'll have to ask the client whether there's real poop in the "fumier" and get back to you.
@ph-b, I think we're speaking past each other here, since we clearly agree that understanding the context and topic is crucial. You're essentially adding a third suggestion to the two offered so far, i.e. farmyard manure.
- "Manure from barley straw" doesn't make sense. Nothing special about barley straw and it's not used specifically to make manure or even compost. But it is used to make mulch. - "Farmyard manure containing barley straw" does make sense. Maybe a little pointless, but plausible. Perhaps the owner is boasting about how self-sufficient the whole operation is (we grow our own bedding).
"you have to consider how a word is used and what it means in context". Indeed. I have. Have you? What is also useful is first-hand experience of the subject. Can you tell manure from mulch? Can you describe the use of manure in a garden or in a field and how it differs from the use of mulch? And why?
And as far as translation (as opposed to wine-making technique) is concerned, there is a perfectly good word for "mulch" in French. The author must have known it, but chose not to use it. Are we free to change the source text or what the author wrote? I should think not. If you think there is a mistake in the source text, flag it, but you may not change the source text without telling your client.
What the text says is that they use manures that come from barley straw (fumiers issus de pailles d’orge) used as cattle litter and so got mixed with animal excrement.
Are all very well—I have several, I love them dearly and I use them all the time—but you have to consider how a word is used and what it means in its context. The dictionary definition of fumiers=animal manure just doesn't make sense here, so we must find and apply a meaning that does.
ph-b (X)
France
About "manures"
16:38 Jun 10, 2020
The text clearly says fumiers ("manures"), i.e. mélange de litières et d'excréments des animaux (https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/fumier) or "solid waste from animals, especially horses, that is spread on the land" (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/man... This has nothing to do with "mulch" (R&C : mulch or paillis, as in Mince couche de paille brisée, ou d'autres débris végétaux, épandue comme litière à la surface du sol... - CNRTL) in which there is no animal element.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply your first guess was illogical, only that barley straw is unlikely to be used as fodder, and even if it is, the resulting dung won't be any different or "greener" than dung from hay, so I very much doubt fumiers is manure in this case.
Yes, I've been in quite a few vineyards, on 3 continents in fact, though I admit not in winter or spring, usually summer or harvest time in autumn. Note that I didn't disagree with you that it MIGHT be manure but it is definitely NOT "green manure" (such as mustard, or phacelia). My initial comment here to Asker was in response to her comment about feeding barley straw to the animals. AND barley straw IS most definitely used as a mulch
Barley grains can be fed to animals and sometimes barley straw can be used as forage when mixed with other fodder (as it would definitely not be enough on its own). Barley straw could also be used as bedding, which the animals could "poop" on and could then be forked out and put into a heap to break down as manure. BUT, and it's a big BUT, this is for use in a vineyard where grapes are picked by hand so I doubt very much that anyone wants to wade through manure to do the vindange! I am almost certain that this barley straw is intended as a mulch to stop erosion and run-off in the vineyard (oh and I have peronal experience of doing 3 vindanges in france. No manure in sight but yes to mulches)
Your second guess is right, it's barley straw used as mulch or compost. Compost is a key part of organic or biodynamic viticulture, though I'm not sure barley straw has any special properties, most likely it's used simply because it's there.
As an aside, I doubt feed has much to do with the "quality" of manure even if that could be measured, and it's surely implausible to feed livestock a single grain (not straw), so that also rules out manure in this case (most vinegrowers probably purchase their manure since they won't have the livestock to produce it themselves, apart perhaps from some horses).
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
7 hrs confidence:
(barley-straw) mulch
Explanation: It's a mulch, NOT a manure, NOT a compost and NOT even a green manure which are particular specific plants such as alfafa or phecelia grown to be dug back into the ground. See here:https://www.fruithillfarm.com/info/2017/01/what-are-green-ma...
This is barley straw grown specifically to be used as a mulch in this case. And quite commonly used in vineyards to revent erosion. it is NOT given as a feed to animals (so obviously not pooped to beconme manure)
