This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Mar 31, 2021 08:55
3 yrs ago
25 viewers *
French term
mesure de rattachement
French to English
Law/Patents
Surveying
Minutes for determination of boundaries for a plot of land, produced by a Géomètre-Expert.
"Définition des limites de propriétés
A l'issue
Du débat contradictoire
De l'analyse :
-des titres de propriétés
-des documents cités ci-dessus,
-des signes de possession constatés,
-des usages locaux,
Après avoir constaté l'accord des parties présentes,
Les repères nouveaux 500, 501, 502 et 503 ont été implantés.
Les termes de limites :
000 : clou dans rocher,
000 : angle de mur,
000 : clou,
000 : clou,
000 : borne nouvelle,
000 : axe de fossé,
000 : axe de fossé,
000 : axe de buse,
000 : axe de buse,
000 : axe de fossé,
000 : axe de fossé,
000 : axe de fossé,
ont été reconnus.
Les parties présentes reconnaissent comme réelle et définitive la limite de propriété objet du présent procès-verbal de bornage ainsi fixée suivant la ligne :
000-000-000 -000-000-000-000-...
Nature des limites et appartenances :
Entre les points 400 et 403, le fossé est mitoyen et rattaché aux parcelles cadastrées BH n°10 d'une part, et BH n°14, 15, 16 et 17 d'autre part,
Entre les points 600 et 601, le mur et la clôture sont privatifs et rattachés à la parcelle cadastrée BH n°10,
Entre les points 602 et 603, la clôture est privative et rattachée à la parcelle cadastrée BH n°10.
Le plan de bornage joint permet de repérer sans ambiguïté la position des limites et des sommets définis par le présent procès-verbal.
Mesures permettant le rétablissement ultérieur des sommets des limites
Tableau des mesures de rattachement et/ou tableau des coordonnées destinées à définir géométriquement les limites et permettre leur rétablissement ultérieur (Système de coordonnées RGF93-CC43).
Coordonnées des sommets
MAT
X
Y
145
0000000.06
..."
I take it that sommet here is to be understood as "vertex", i.e. the dots on the join-the-dot map defining the boundaries of the plot. Context then suggests that the mesures de rattachement are the lengths between the dots, i.e. of the lines joining each individual dot to the next. Is this right? Anyone know how a chartered surveyor might put this?
"Définition des limites de propriétés
A l'issue
Du débat contradictoire
De l'analyse :
-des titres de propriétés
-des documents cités ci-dessus,
-des signes de possession constatés,
-des usages locaux,
Après avoir constaté l'accord des parties présentes,
Les repères nouveaux 500, 501, 502 et 503 ont été implantés.
Les termes de limites :
000 : clou dans rocher,
000 : angle de mur,
000 : clou,
000 : clou,
000 : borne nouvelle,
000 : axe de fossé,
000 : axe de fossé,
000 : axe de buse,
000 : axe de buse,
000 : axe de fossé,
000 : axe de fossé,
000 : axe de fossé,
ont été reconnus.
Les parties présentes reconnaissent comme réelle et définitive la limite de propriété objet du présent procès-verbal de bornage ainsi fixée suivant la ligne :
000-000-000 -000-000-000-000-...
Nature des limites et appartenances :
Entre les points 400 et 403, le fossé est mitoyen et rattaché aux parcelles cadastrées BH n°10 d'une part, et BH n°14, 15, 16 et 17 d'autre part,
Entre les points 600 et 601, le mur et la clôture sont privatifs et rattachés à la parcelle cadastrée BH n°10,
Entre les points 602 et 603, la clôture est privative et rattachée à la parcelle cadastrée BH n°10.
Le plan de bornage joint permet de repérer sans ambiguïté la position des limites et des sommets définis par le présent procès-verbal.
Mesures permettant le rétablissement ultérieur des sommets des limites
Tableau des mesures de rattachement et/ou tableau des coordonnées destinées à définir géométriquement les limites et permettre leur rétablissement ultérieur (Système de coordonnées RGF93-CC43).
Coordonnées des sommets
MAT
X
Y
145
0000000.06
..."
I take it that sommet here is to be understood as "vertex", i.e. the dots on the join-the-dot map defining the boundaries of the plot. Context then suggests that the mesures de rattachement are the lengths between the dots, i.e. of the lines joining each individual dot to the next. Is this right? Anyone know how a chartered surveyor might put this?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | distances between vertices |
Conor McAuley
|
| 1 | closed traverse measurements |
Andrzej Ziomek
|
Proposed translations
1 hr
Conor McAuley
France
France
Native in English
France
Excellence, Expertise & Experience
Native in: English (Variants: UK, Scottish, Irish, British, Wales / Welsh)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
French term (edited):
mesureS de rattachement
distances between vertices
"mesureS de rattachment", should be
Your document is very similar to the one here:
https://docplayer.fr/60232983-Proces-verbal-de-bornage-et-de...
Your term appears on page 5 of it. (Unfortunately there are no headings for the columns or lines in the table.)
You have "limites", "sommets" and then "sommets des limites".
The Routledge Technical has "boundary" (CONSTR) for "limite", and that's what came to mind before I looked it up.
"sommet": http://www.etsie.upv.es/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/dictionna...
See page 420 (patience required!)
sommet [...] vertex [of an
angle, a curve]
"Vertex" confirmed by Merriam-Webster:
vertex:
[...]
2 b a point (as of an angle, polygon, polyhedron, graph, or network) that terminates a line or curve or comprises the intersection of two or more lines or curves
So "sommet de limite" is a "vertex of a boundary", in theory.
SOOOOOOO: "distances between vertices" for the plural of the term posted.
(I have to admit I started out with the rather literal and terre-à-terre "connection measurements" -- maybe you prefer that? But I doubt it.)
line segment distances, a more "maths" approach
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertex_(geometry)
There more than one way to cook a fish.
NOT ONE OF MY SPECIALIST SUBJECT AREAS, MEDIUM CONFIDENCE, BUT THE RESEARCH SET OUT HERE IS SOUND I THINK.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2021-03-31 10:44:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The term I posted doesn't check out as absolutely the right technical term, but will be understandable to readers.
In the US, more prosaically, and perhaps not using the right surveying technical terms:
"You and your neighbor may agree to change your *property lines* yourselves, though this involves a *boundary line agreement*, also called a *lot line agreement*, that involves deeding the land in question and changing the legal description of both your properties."
Interestingly, "boundary line agreement" is not a bad translation of "PROCES VERBAL DEBORNAGE ET DE RECONNAISSANCE DELIMITES", found in my first link above.
https://wtop.com/news/2021/03/how-do-i-find-my-property-line...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2021-03-31 13:07:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
To Mpoma: I suppose the Agreement would follow and be based on the Minutes plus any negotiated settlement, you're absolutely right.
Your document is very similar to the one here:
https://docplayer.fr/60232983-Proces-verbal-de-bornage-et-de...
Your term appears on page 5 of it. (Unfortunately there are no headings for the columns or lines in the table.)
You have "limites", "sommets" and then "sommets des limites".
The Routledge Technical has "boundary" (CONSTR) for "limite", and that's what came to mind before I looked it up.
"sommet": http://www.etsie.upv.es/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/dictionna...
See page 420 (patience required!)
sommet [...] vertex [of an
angle, a curve]
"Vertex" confirmed by Merriam-Webster:
vertex:
[...]
2 b a point (as of an angle, polygon, polyhedron, graph, or network) that terminates a line or curve or comprises the intersection of two or more lines or curves
So "sommet de limite" is a "vertex of a boundary", in theory.
SOOOOOOO: "distances between vertices" for the plural of the term posted.
(I have to admit I started out with the rather literal and terre-à-terre "connection measurements" -- maybe you prefer that? But I doubt it.)
line segment distances, a more "maths" approach
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertex_(geometry)
There more than one way to cook a fish.
NOT ONE OF MY SPECIALIST SUBJECT AREAS, MEDIUM CONFIDENCE, BUT THE RESEARCH SET OUT HERE IS SOUND I THINK.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2021-03-31 10:44:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The term I posted doesn't check out as absolutely the right technical term, but will be understandable to readers.
In the US, more prosaically, and perhaps not using the right surveying technical terms:
"You and your neighbor may agree to change your *property lines* yourselves, though this involves a *boundary line agreement*, also called a *lot line agreement*, that involves deeding the land in question and changing the legal description of both your properties."
Interestingly, "boundary line agreement" is not a bad translation of "PROCES VERBAL DEBORNAGE ET DE RECONNAISSANCE DELIMITES", found in my first link above.
https://wtop.com/news/2021/03/how-do-i-find-my-property-line...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2021-03-31 13:07:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
To Mpoma: I suppose the Agreement would follow and be based on the Minutes plus any negotiated settlement, you're absolutely right.
Note from asker:
| Thanks. GDT has "minutes of a boundary determination" for *procès-verbal de bornage*. I like this because it appears that this is a report on a meeting, *sur les lieux*, when the surveyor walks around the perimeter with any owners of plots concerned who can be bothered to turn up (or their representatives). *Reconnaissance* is simply "recognition", I reckon. |
6 days
Andrzej Ziomek
Poland
Poland
Poland
Jack of all trades Master of translation
Native in: Polish 
Works in: English to Polish, Polish to English
closed traverse measurements
-
Example sentence:
A closed traverse is one that either begins and ends at the same point. Therefore the angles can be closed geometrically and the position closure can be determined mathematically.
Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traverse_(surveying)
http://web.itu.edu.tr/~coskun/contents/lessons/topo/week_6.pdf
Discussion
'Rattachement
Un rattachement géodésique désigne l'ensemble des opérations (mesures topométriques, calculs) qui permettent de rattacher en coordonnées 1D, 2D ou 3D un point à un ou plusieurs points de référence d'un système géodésique. On définit ainsi la position relative dans l'espace d'un point par rapport à un autre point déjà connu en coordonnées.'
https://reseau-orpheon.fr/les-domaines-application-orpheon/f...
Aménagements fonciers
Bornage amiable, judiciaire,
Lever des limites de propriétés et des clôtures,
Division de propriété,
Maintenance du plan cadastral,
Conservation cadastrale et publicité foncière,
Concordance cadastrale,
Lever des constructions,
Plan de servitudes attachés à la propriété
Expertise judiciaire, amiable, arbitrage
[...]
qtts4faaybfr4o.pdfhttp://cdn1_3.reseaudescommunes.fr › documents
PDF
***Systeme de coordonnées RGF93 CC43 rattaché par système GPS réseau ORPHEON***. Le nivellement est rattaché au NGF par systeme GPS temu ORPHEON.
It could be a kind of twin system, old-fashioned methods tied in with GPS etc. where possible.
If you've tried to use a mobile phone in la France profonde, you'll know what "where possible" means...
Perhaps surveyors have other means (satellite?) to get GPS coordinates?
Larousse rattachement - "Opération géodésique permettant de déterminer la position d'un repère secondaire par rapport à celle du point principal."
Termium plus "point de rattachement - tie point...rattachement: opération permettant de déterminer la position d'un repère secondaire par rapport à celle du point principal" https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-eng.html?l...
I think it may be related to survey ties and tie lines and the French grid system - Système de coordonnées RGF93-CC43.
I'm not very good at explaining this so here's how they do it in North Carolina
https://silo.tips/download/survey-ties-guidelines
and in France
https://bofip.impots.gouv.fr/bofip/5101-PGP.html/identifiant... (paragraphs 20 and 150 onwards)