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Glossary entry

Catalan term or phrase:

pa de pagès (ES pan payés)

English translation:

farmhouse (white) loaf

Added to glossary by Lancashireman
Dec 14, 2012 22:45
11 yrs ago
14 viewers *
Catalan term

pan payés

Catalan to English Other Food & Drink Bread
I am translating a short text about PA AMB OLI from German to English:
Man nimmt dafür sowohl pan moreno (dunkles Brot) wie pan payés (Bauernbrot).
= You can use either pan moreno (dark bread) or pan payés (farmhouse/rustic/peasant-style?)

How would you distinguish between the two types of bread in English (i.e. I am trying to sneak two terms in here). Would pan moreno be better translated as dark/black/brown/wholemeal? And is pan payés white?

Thanks for your help.

Andrew Swift (DE>EN)
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 Countryman's bread / countryside bread
4 +1 pa de pagès = traditional Catalan bread (round, white loaf))
5 country bread
4 Farmhouse loaf
Change log

Dec 18, 2012 02:25: Lancashireman Created KOG entry

Discussion

Lancashireman (asker) Dec 18, 2012:
Many thanks to all contributors As points cannot be split on KudoZ, I have sought to apply the principle of ‘most helpful answer’. The final version sent to the author (a resident of Mallorca and regular writer on food & drink) was as follows: “You can use either the smoother brown bread (pan moreno) or the coarser farmhouse white (pan payés).”
Rick Larg Dec 15, 2012:
@ Sheila Hardie Well, it's basically the same idea. I confess that pa sobrassada is a little boring for my jaded taste buds, and I like The Works: toasted pa mallorqui, garlic rubbed into this, tòmatiga de ramellet rubbed onto that then the oil and then the sobrassada! All my local in-laws etc think I'm mad! Maybe they're right, but it certainly makes for a tasty supper.
Lancashireman (asker) Dec 15, 2012:
Thanks for the discussion and URLs, everyone. From the images, I am getting the impression that - apart from the colour issue - there may also be a difference in density, with the pan moreno being heavier and more chewy while the pan payés looks lighter and fluffier.

Apologies for having entered Spanish as Catalan; I was mesmerised by the PA AMB OLI heading to my text.
Sheila Hardie Dec 15, 2012:
OK, well that may change things - I am referring to 'pa de pagès' in mainland Catalonia - where I am. Here it is refers to white bread - round, with a thick crust and mainly sold sliced. It is the kind of bread that is generally toasted to make 'pa amb tomàquet' (or drizzled with olive oil and eaten with cheese or meat, as in your text perhaps)- 'Pa de pagès' or 'pa mallorquí' may well refer to brown bread with or without salt in Mallorca, but is does not in Barcelona, or where we are close to the French border. As you may know, in Catalonia most sandwiches (except those using processed packaged bread) are made by rubbing tomato onto bread and drizzling it with olive oil. Some people leave out the tomato. But 9 times out of 10, white bread is used for this purpose.
Michelle Kusuda Dec 15, 2012:
Your proposed translation makes sense. At least I know what you mean in English since I do not speak German. I think all suggestions given would work. It is a matter of what works best with the entire manuscript and how well educated the readership would be about the name of the bread either in Castilian Spanish or Catalan.
Lancashireman (asker) Dec 15, 2012:
Hi Sheila The author is writing about Mallorca. Sorry, I should have been more specific on that point. From the links supplied to images on the Web, it certainly looks like white bread.
Lancashireman (asker) Dec 15, 2012:
Hi Michelle and Rick Thank you for your help on this. You have confirmed my suspicion that the distinction between the two types of bread is not clear.

My proposed translation is as follows:
"You can use either standard brown bread (pan moreno) or the coarser country-style loaf (pan payés)."

Proposed translations

+1
9 hrs
Selected

Countryman's bread / countryside bread

I have nothing against Michelle’s ’country bread’ but think that these are two other viable options- depending on the rest of your text. However, in my experience here in Mallorca, pan payés (‘pa de pages’ or ‘pa mallorqui’) is brown, baked in a wood burning oven and is not only coarser, but contains no salt. Catering to modern tastes, it is true that some bakers turn out a white bread version, but this is NOT ‘ typical’ . If you go to the bakers’ in any village and ask for ‘un pa’ you get brown. I agree with Michelle that ‘pan moreno’ is brown bread, and herein lies your problem. It is not an opposite term to pan payés- the original text is suspect. By the way, ‘wholemeal’ would be ‘integral’ which is something no self respecting pagès would eat, leaving that to health food freaks, hippies etc.

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Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2012-12-16 19:30:57 GMT)
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HUMBLE PIE
To set the record straight - at least for Mallorca. I am (very) reliably informed that while pa mallorqui can be either brown or white, pa de pagès is in reality neither one nor the other: it is both lighter (colour-wise) than brown and also browner than white, it is heavier and more mealier, ‘thicker’ and more ‘concentrated’ for lack of a better word. As I wrote earlier, it is indeed baked in a wood burning oven and contains no added salt. I apologise to the Proz community for any erroneous impressions I gave you before.


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Note added at 3 days9 hrs (2012-12-18 08:13:21 GMT) Post-grading
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There must be better places to buy decent bread than Eroski, even in El Arenal!
Example sentence:

Es fa imprescindible l'ús del típic pa mallorquí, dens, moreno i sense sal, amb farina de blat.

Reference:

http://queennantpertu.blogspot.com.es/2009/12/pa-de-payes.html

http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llista_de_plats_t%C3%ADpics_de_Mallorca

Note from asker:
Thank you for replying in such detail. I found the Mallorquín perspective most helpful. I should really pay more attention next time I am staying in Es Arenal and purchase bread from Eroski.
Peer comment(s):
agree Michelle Kusuda : http://www.origenonline.es/reportajes-pa-pages/1/2064.html
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+1
13 hrs

pa de pagès = traditional Catalan bread (round, white loaf))

In fact, the Catalan name is 'pa de pagès' not 'pan payés' (the Spanish name) and it is almost always white bread - a round loaf, sold sliced or unsliced. People often use it to make 'pa amb tomàquet' - bread slices rubbed with ripe tomato and garlic then you drizzle olive oil on top and sprinkle a little salt to taste.

In your context, I would say that they are contrasting brown bread with the white round Catalan 'country-style'/'peasant-style' loaf.

You can find brown 'pa de pagès' but it is almost always white.

There is a photo on the following website:

http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pa_de_pagès

HTH


Sheila
Note from asker:
Thank you for your detailed reply. I am sure the author did indeed wish to contrast brown and white loaves.
Peer comment(s):
agree Andy Watkinson
39 mins
neutral Rick Larg : 'Pa amb tomaquet' is the 'pa amb oli' of Les Isles, except that in Mallorca people (almost always) use 'pa mallorqui' as descibed above, and might even spread sobrassada on the bread after the 'oli': 'pa sobrassada', in which case no 'tòmatiga de ramallet
2 hrs
Thanks for explaining, Rick - it's obviously very different from the system here then. Sounds good too though :)
Something went wrong...
54 mins

country bread

Okay, in Catalonia, pan payés refers to "country bread" to distinguish it from baguette style bread.

Pan moreno = Brown bread

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Note added at 12 hrs (2012-12-15 11:24:23 GMT)
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Here are the full specifications:
http://www20.gencat.cat/docs/DAR/AL_Alimentacio/AL02_Qualita...

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Note added at 12 hrs (2012-12-15 11:27:22 GMT)
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And here is the link to "images" for it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=pa de pages catala&hl=en&clie...


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Note added at 15 hrs (2012-12-15 13:55:30 GMT)
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http://www.naciodigital.cat/blocdefotos/fotos/gran/pa_amb_ol...
Note from asker:
Thank you for being first on the scene and for the informative URLs.
Something went wrong...
1 day 1 hr

Farmhouse loaf

That's what we used to call them at home.
Example sentence:

Nearly 7 million hits on Google for this term :)

Note from asker:
Thank you for confirming ‘farmhouse’. I agree that country/countryside/country-style would not mean much to an EN reader.
Something went wrong...