Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
vin liquoreux
English translation:
sweet white wine (see full KudoZ question for more info)
Added to glossary by
Conor McAuley
Oct 4, 2005 15:11
18 yrs ago
19 viewers *
French term
vin liquoreux
French to English
Other
Wine / Oenology / Viticulture
Wine Type
= vin de liqueur (fortified wine)?
"Quand au vin liquoreux xxxxxxx, il est l'un des secret les mieux gardé de la famille."
"Quand au vin liquoreux xxxxxxx, il est l'un des secret les mieux gardé de la famille."
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +11 | Take care here! | Tony M |
4 +4 | syrupy | Attila Piróth |
4 | sweet wine high in alcohol | Elizabeth Slaney |
5 -1 | syrupy wine | frenchloki (X) |
3 +1 | very sweet | Josephine79 |
3 -2 | fortified wine | Enza Longo |
2 -1 | dessert wine | Anna Kiff |
1 -2 | naturally sweet wine | Sara Freitas |
Proposed translations
+11
17 mins
Selected
Take care here!
You need to be very careful with this one, and (depending on the purpose of your document) you may well find the best solution is not to translate it at all, but to add an explanation.
A 'vin doux naturel' is a naturally sweet wine, usually made from grapes that have suffered from the 'noble rot', which has made them over-ripe and super-sweet
A 'vin liquoreux' has had some sugar added to it to make it sweeter (though I believe this is a naturally-occuring grape-related sugar, and not just any old cane sugar) --- this is NOT the same as a 'fortified wine'
A 'vin cuit' is what we usually translate as 'fortified wine' (e.g. port or sherry), and it is a wine that has been cocnentrated by partial evaporation of the water content, with or without the addition of extra sugar.
I'm not a wine expert myself, so some of my explanations may not be technically quite spot on, but I have this information on good authority from people who DO know what they're talking about, so please be warned --- at any rate, it is important to be aware that the 3 types mentioned above are NOT AT ALL SYNONYMOUS --- Sauternes is not the same as Banyuls / muscat / sherry / port / pineau etc. etc.
&
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Note added at 28 mins (2005-10-04 15:39:53 GMT)
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It's important to note that this is not just some arbitrary descriptive term, like 'sweet wine' or 'sparkling wine' or 'dessert wine', but an actual technical term with a very specific meaning in the industry -- and woe betide you if you mis-attribute it to the wrong type of wine!
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Note added at 1 hr 21 mins (2005-10-04 16:33:06 GMT)
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A little bit more information (but I'm starting to get myself confused now!)
Sugar is NEVER added to make the wine sweet.
Either, you start off with super-sweet grapes, and fermentation stops when the yeast can no longer ferment any more sugar; that way, you get alcohol + residual sugar (= Sauternes, Barsac, Jura...)
Or, you let fermentation take its natural course, then sweeten it at the end by adding unfermented grape juice
Or, you deliberately stop the fermentation before all the sugar has been used up.
These different techniques produce the different varieties of French (and other) sweet wines
They are quite different from the techniques used to produce 'vin cuit', wines that have been fortified in various different ways...
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Note added at 1 hr 41 mins (2005-10-04 16:52:34 GMT)
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Here are various trawlings from glossaries on Google:
LIQUOREUX
Vins blancs riches en sucre, obtenus à partir de raisins sur lesquels s'est développée la pourriture noble, et se distinguant entre autres par un bouquet spécifique. [Dusty adds: i.e. Sauternes etc.]
V.D.L.
Vin De Liqueur; vin doux ne répondant pas aux normes réglementaires des VDN, OU vin obtenu par mélange de vin et d'alcool (Pineau des Charentes).
V.D.N.
Vin Doux Naturel; vin issu de muscat, grenache, macabeo et malvoisie, et correspondant à des conditions strictes de production, de richesse et d'élaboration.
VIN DOUX NATUREL (VDN) : vin pour lequel on procède au mutage (arrêt de la fermentation alcoolique, par l'adjonction d'un certain pourcentage d'alcool de rétrocession compris entre 5 et 10 % du volume des moûts). Les plus célèbres sont Banyuls, Maury, Rivesaltes, et les Muscats de Rivesaltes, frontignan, Saint-Jean-de-Minervois, Lunel et Beaumes-de-Venise.
V.D.N.
Vin Doux Naturel.
Vin cuit
Vin obtenu à partir d'un moût qui a été concentré par chauffage.
Liquoreux
Se dit d'un vin blanc onctueux, moelleux et présentant beaucoup de sucres résiduels.
Vin doux naturel : un vin muté à l'alcool pendant fermentation.
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Note added at 20 hrs 47 mins (2005-10-05 11:59:15 GMT)
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In answer to Jane's plea:
if this is a technical context, I would be inclined to leave it untranslated as a French term, and just add an explanation.
If, however, this is an informal context, I think 'sweet (white) wine' would probably be sufficient, though could be amplified, depending on the exact context.
A 'vin doux naturel' is a naturally sweet wine, usually made from grapes that have suffered from the 'noble rot', which has made them over-ripe and super-sweet
A 'vin liquoreux' has had some sugar added to it to make it sweeter (though I believe this is a naturally-occuring grape-related sugar, and not just any old cane sugar) --- this is NOT the same as a 'fortified wine'
A 'vin cuit' is what we usually translate as 'fortified wine' (e.g. port or sherry), and it is a wine that has been cocnentrated by partial evaporation of the water content, with or without the addition of extra sugar.
I'm not a wine expert myself, so some of my explanations may not be technically quite spot on, but I have this information on good authority from people who DO know what they're talking about, so please be warned --- at any rate, it is important to be aware that the 3 types mentioned above are NOT AT ALL SYNONYMOUS --- Sauternes is not the same as Banyuls / muscat / sherry / port / pineau etc. etc.
&
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2005-10-04 15:39:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It's important to note that this is not just some arbitrary descriptive term, like 'sweet wine' or 'sparkling wine' or 'dessert wine', but an actual technical term with a very specific meaning in the industry -- and woe betide you if you mis-attribute it to the wrong type of wine!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 21 mins (2005-10-04 16:33:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A little bit more information (but I'm starting to get myself confused now!)
Sugar is NEVER added to make the wine sweet.
Either, you start off with super-sweet grapes, and fermentation stops when the yeast can no longer ferment any more sugar; that way, you get alcohol + residual sugar (= Sauternes, Barsac, Jura...)
Or, you let fermentation take its natural course, then sweeten it at the end by adding unfermented grape juice
Or, you deliberately stop the fermentation before all the sugar has been used up.
These different techniques produce the different varieties of French (and other) sweet wines
They are quite different from the techniques used to produce 'vin cuit', wines that have been fortified in various different ways...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 41 mins (2005-10-04 16:52:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here are various trawlings from glossaries on Google:
LIQUOREUX
Vins blancs riches en sucre, obtenus à partir de raisins sur lesquels s'est développée la pourriture noble, et se distinguant entre autres par un bouquet spécifique. [Dusty adds: i.e. Sauternes etc.]
V.D.L.
Vin De Liqueur; vin doux ne répondant pas aux normes réglementaires des VDN, OU vin obtenu par mélange de vin et d'alcool (Pineau des Charentes).
V.D.N.
Vin Doux Naturel; vin issu de muscat, grenache, macabeo et malvoisie, et correspondant à des conditions strictes de production, de richesse et d'élaboration.
VIN DOUX NATUREL (VDN) : vin pour lequel on procède au mutage (arrêt de la fermentation alcoolique, par l'adjonction d'un certain pourcentage d'alcool de rétrocession compris entre 5 et 10 % du volume des moûts). Les plus célèbres sont Banyuls, Maury, Rivesaltes, et les Muscats de Rivesaltes, frontignan, Saint-Jean-de-Minervois, Lunel et Beaumes-de-Venise.
V.D.N.
Vin Doux Naturel.
Vin cuit
Vin obtenu à partir d'un moût qui a été concentré par chauffage.
Liquoreux
Se dit d'un vin blanc onctueux, moelleux et présentant beaucoup de sucres résiduels.
Vin doux naturel : un vin muté à l'alcool pendant fermentation.
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Note added at 20 hrs 47 mins (2005-10-05 11:59:15 GMT)
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In answer to Jane's plea:
if this is a technical context, I would be inclined to leave it untranslated as a French term, and just add an explanation.
If, however, this is an informal context, I think 'sweet (white) wine' would probably be sufficient, though could be amplified, depending on the exact context.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
sporran
: absolutely ! Cheers Dusty !
2 mins
|
Thanks, Sporran! Hic...!
|
|
agree |
Sara Freitas
: You are correct, of course. Liquoreux = Sauternes et. cie. / VDN = muscat et. al.
15 mins
|
Thanks, Sara!
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agree |
Georges Tocco
20 mins
|
Thanks, Georges!
|
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agree |
Paige Stanton (X)
20 mins
|
Thanks, Paige!
|
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agree |
Rachel Fell
: Quite agree - thanks for spelling it out!
22 mins
|
Thanks, Rachel! I've been told off about this one often enough myself... and it comes up quite often in my everyday work
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agree |
sets
: Yep, best leave in French with a definition in English afterwards)
30 mins
|
Thanks, Graham! I think that's the safest way to go...
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agree |
sujata
: completely right... i work in the wine business...
45 mins
|
Thanks, Sujata! Your authoritative confirmation is particularly welcome!
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agree |
Elizabeth Lyons
: These remind me of Italian Rosolios with a large percentage of sugar added to home made after dinner "digestive" hootch.//They are indeed; vedi nocino or limoncello--my fav: pistachio : ).
48 mins
|
Thanks, Elizabeth! Don't know them myself, but they sound scrummy!
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agree |
Besmir (X)
: After such an amazing presentation, I think the asker should buy you a bottle :-)
4 hrs
|
Thanks, Besmir! One can but hope... ;-)
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agree |
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
: this is great Dusty but what is the translation, pray tell?
6 hrs
|
Thanks, Jane! As I said above, in a technical context, I would not translate it...
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agree |
Bourth (X)
: "Botrytis(ed) wine" or "liquoreux wine" ? (though definitions of vin liq. seem to differ!)
7 hrs
|
Thanks, Alex! Yes, 'vin liq.' seems to be the least technically specific of all these terms...
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for all the info. Thanks to all for your help. My client says "sweet white wine" is the best short translation, the closest you can get without adding a very long gloss."
+4
6 mins
syrupy
LIQUOREUX (SYRUPY)
White Wines rich in sugar, obtained starting from grapes on which developed the noble rot, and being distinguished inter alia by a specific bouquet.
You may find this link useful:
<a href="http://www.chez.com/bibs/aglo.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.chez.com/bibs/aglo.html</a>
White Wines rich in sugar, obtained starting from grapes on which developed the noble rot, and being distinguished inter alia by a specific bouquet.
You may find this link useful:
<a href="http://www.chez.com/bibs/aglo.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.chez.com/bibs/aglo.html</a>
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Rachel Davenport
: Beat me to it! http://www.azureva.com/gb/loire/magazine/gastronomie/magloir...
4 mins
|
agree |
SusanMurray
: googled "syrupy wine" with Bordeaux and came up with some good hits which may help you Conor (references to Sauternes, Montbazillac ...)
18 mins
|
agree |
frenchloki (X)
: Missed this response last night - sorry Attila
16 hrs
|
agree |
S K
1 day 1 hr
|
-2
8 mins
fortified wine
according to this link, fortified wine is correct
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Sara Freitas
: isn't fortified more like port, etc...?
23 mins
|
I wasn't sure about this one and Dusty confirmed that this is not the right translation - not everything found on Google is correct!
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disagree |
sets
: definitely not
37 mins
|
yes, Graham, so I've admitted
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disagree |
frenchloki (X)
: definitely not! A fortified wine has alcohol added.....
4 hrs
|
ok!
|
24 mins
sweet wine high in alcohol
Definition from the Petit Robert "Qui rappelle la liqueur par la saveur douce, le degré élevé d'alcool. Vins liquoreux"
or, to make it a little shorter perhaps, "sweet and strong wine" (Oxford Hâchette).
or, to make it a little shorter perhaps, "sweet and strong wine" (Oxford Hâchette).
-1
23 mins
dessert wine
Or is a dessert wine just one kind of vin liquoreux?
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Note added at 27 mins (2005-10-04 15:38:35 GMT)
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http://www.wine-tours-france.com/Newsletters/enewsletterNov0...
The result is a dessert wine ("vin liquoreux") with remarkably complex aromas (a result of the Noble Rot) and a divine sweetness that is, ...
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Note added at 28 mins (2005-10-04 15:39:54 GMT)
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http://www.discoverparis.net/promo.html
This stop features a vin blanc liquoreux (white dessert wine) from Périgord
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Note added at 27 mins (2005-10-04 15:38:35 GMT)
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http://www.wine-tours-france.com/Newsletters/enewsletterNov0...
The result is a dessert wine ("vin liquoreux") with remarkably complex aromas (a result of the Noble Rot) and a divine sweetness that is, ...
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Note added at 28 mins (2005-10-04 15:39:54 GMT)
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http://www.discoverparis.net/promo.html
This stop features a vin blanc liquoreux (white dessert wine) from Périgord
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: 'dessert wine' might refer to any type of sweet wine, and 'vin liq.' might well be drunk as an apéritif, so not very helpful as a classification, I'm afraid!
3 mins
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righty ho
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disagree |
Georges Tocco
: agrre with Dusty here
12 mins
|
fair enough
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neutral |
Sara Freitas
: although in English Sauternes is often referred to as a dessert wine...this is a very tricky question
17 mins
|
true, true
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neutral |
frenchloki (X)
: it's the other way around - a vin liquoreux is one kind of dessert wine
15 hrs
|
ok, ok, get the message! Note confidence level 2 everyone. Gosh, it's enough to put a person off ever daring to answer a question again and to make you consider an immediate career change!! ;-)
|
-2
5 mins
naturally sweet wine
Conor, is this the same as a VDN (vin doux naturel)= naturlly sweet wine? (Banyuls, Sauternes, etc.).
I know in common parlance we call them "liquoreux" but technically I'm not sure if they are the same.
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Note added at 6 mins (2005-10-04 15:18:10 GMT)
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After a bit of Googling, VDNs and "liquoreux" do appear to refer to the same appellations, but again, technically I am just not sure if this is right!
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Note added at 15 mins (2005-10-04 15:27:05 GMT)
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Liquoreux : vins blancs riches en sucres résiduels, à la texture onctueuse.
VDN : Vins Doux naturels. Ces vins sont obtenus par l'adjonction d'alcool neutre pendant la fermentation afin d'arrêter celle-ci. Le vin garde alors une part de sucre résiduel et est riche en alcool.
http://www.terroirs-b.com/france/vins/initiation/lexique-l.h...
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Note added at 17 mins (2005-10-04 15:29:13 GMT)
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Liquoreux: qui a une saveur très douce, due à la présence de sucres non fermentés
http://www.vinotheque.lu/vino/VocaVin2.html
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Note added at 34 mins (2005-10-04 15:45:36 GMT)
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Dusty is right, of course. The difference is small but important. I'll leave my answer up for the links to glossaries and hopefully Josephine's oenologue will be able to help!
I know in common parlance we call them "liquoreux" but technically I'm not sure if they are the same.
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Note added at 6 mins (2005-10-04 15:18:10 GMT)
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After a bit of Googling, VDNs and "liquoreux" do appear to refer to the same appellations, but again, technically I am just not sure if this is right!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2005-10-04 15:27:05 GMT)
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Liquoreux : vins blancs riches en sucres résiduels, à la texture onctueuse.
VDN : Vins Doux naturels. Ces vins sont obtenus par l'adjonction d'alcool neutre pendant la fermentation afin d'arrêter celle-ci. Le vin garde alors une part de sucre résiduel et est riche en alcool.
http://www.terroirs-b.com/france/vins/initiation/lexique-l.h...
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Note added at 17 mins (2005-10-04 15:29:13 GMT)
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Liquoreux: qui a une saveur très douce, due à la présence de sucres non fermentés
http://www.vinotheque.lu/vino/VocaVin2.html
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Note added at 34 mins (2005-10-04 15:45:36 GMT)
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Dusty is right, of course. The difference is small but important. I'll leave my answer up for the links to glossaries and hopefully Josephine's oenologue will be able to help!
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Tony M
: No, they do NOT refer to the same thing, the difference is quite specific, and you'll get your knuckles rapped if you make them out to be the same! /// Sorry, Sara, didn't mean to sound school-masterish! ;-)
5 mins
|
Looks like you've taken care of the knuckle rapping. Note my confidence level of 1 here.
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disagree |
frenchloki (X)
: A vin doux naturel is an entirely different type of wine and definitely NOT a Sauternes.......
5 hrs
|
As stated earlier, did you actually read any of the answers/comments? I've stated my error, agreed with other answers and left my answers up in case the links are useful.
|
-1
5 hrs
syrupy wine
Usually refers to a sweet white wine. "Noble rot" is a controlled infection of the healthy grape by botrytis cinerea, a fungus which facilitates the concentration of sugars. Essential for the making of the great sweet white wines - Sauternes etc. If anyone has a bottle to spare.......
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Note added at 5 hrs 16 mins (2005-10-04 20:27:46 GMT)
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Have just seen Dusty's comments and his corrected conclusions are quite clear.
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Note added at 5 hrs 16 mins (2005-10-04 20:27:46 GMT)
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Have just seen Dusty's comments and his corrected conclusions are quite clear.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Sara Freitas
: I wonder if you read any of the other answers before answering? See Attila's "syrupy" at 6 minutes.
10 hrs
|
oops! Read them all except Attila's. Mea culpa. Well, it was midnight..............
|
+1
17 mins
very sweet
Dixit my trusty "Dictionnaire des vins bières et spiritueux du monde".
"Qualificatif appliqué à un vin très riche en sucre".
I would personnally say syrupy, however I'm not sure about your context: if it's not a professional wine producer (as it's a family secret) they may be using it in the same way as my in-laws say "vin de pêche" for the aperitif they make by macerating peach leaves in sugar, wine and home-made brandy.(Drink, anyone?)
Not sure if this is much help.....
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Note added at 14 hrs 12 mins (2005-10-05 05:24:09 GMT)
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Asked the oenologue at the tasting last night: he says "sweet wine". So may be the solution is to use a translator's note as that does seem rather vague in English.
"Qualificatif appliqué à un vin très riche en sucre".
I would personnally say syrupy, however I'm not sure about your context: if it's not a professional wine producer (as it's a family secret) they may be using it in the same way as my in-laws say "vin de pêche" for the aperitif they make by macerating peach leaves in sugar, wine and home-made brandy.(Drink, anyone?)
Not sure if this is much help.....
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Note added at 14 hrs 12 mins (2005-10-05 05:24:09 GMT)
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Asked the oenologue at the tasting last night: he says "sweet wine". So may be the solution is to use a translator's note as that does seem rather vague in English.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Sara Freitas
: The difference is so technical, this sounds like a reasonable answer to me.
13 mins
|
Discussion
français
anglais
vin liquoreux n. m.
noble rotted sweet wine
???