Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
petit cabinet en hors d’œuvre
English translation:
small room projecting out from the main building
Added to glossary by
Christopher Crockett
Jul 10, 2007 10:48
16 yrs ago
French term
petit cabinet en hors d’œuvre
French to English
Art/Literary
History
Fontainebleau
From a text on the history of the Francois I Gallery at Fontainebleau. All I can find is "outwork", but it doesn't seem terribly clear to me. Unfortunately, I have no visuals.
Au XVIIIe siècle, Louis XVI, à la recherche d’espace pour agrandir ses appartements privés, fit doubler la galerie d’une aile nouvelle. Cette construction occulta toutes les fenêtres nord. Elle fit aussi disparaître un petit cabinet en hors d’œuvre, orné d’une fresque de Primatice, qui s’ouvrait au milieu de la galerie. Il fut remplacé par une cheminée ornée de chimères égyptiennes en plomb.
Au XVIIIe siècle, Louis XVI, à la recherche d’espace pour agrandir ses appartements privés, fit doubler la galerie d’une aile nouvelle. Cette construction occulta toutes les fenêtres nord. Elle fit aussi disparaître un petit cabinet en hors d’œuvre, orné d’une fresque de Primatice, qui s’ouvrait au milieu de la galerie. Il fut remplacé par une cheminée ornée de chimères égyptiennes en plomb.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | small room projecting out from the main building (or works) |
Christopher Crockett
|
| 3 | As you suggest.. |
Cervin
|
Change log
Jul 12, 2007 12:20: Christopher Crockett Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
2 hrs
Christopher Crockett
Native in English
Specializes in field
M.A., Ph.D. Historian/Art Historian
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
100
Selected
small room projecting out from the main building (or works)
This is a tough one, with plenty of False Friends.
Clearly, alas, it's not a question of an (Eng.) "cabinet" but, as Sandra's P.R. reference says, of a (Fr.) "piece," i.e., "room."
And we can probably presume that it's not a room made out of fois gras spread on little crackers.
Here's the (on-line) Tresor de la langue Fr.:
"HORS(-)D'ŒUVRE, (HORS DŒUVRE, HORS-DŒUVRE)subst. masc.
"A. ARCHIT. Partie d'un édifice en saillie qui ne fait pas partie de l'ordonnance générale de l'ensemble. Cette partie du bâtiment est un hors-d'œuvre (NOËL 1968)."
The text tells us that it's a small (relatively, being part of a palace) room, but large (and important) enough to have been decorated with a fresco (of Spring? think: Botticelli) and yet small enough to be obliterated (remplacé) by a massive fireplace.
What was it, a large closet, a little "chambre de laisons royales"?
We can't know, from this text.
But, it does seem that it did project out from the main building (perhaps built as an afterthought?), just as did the chimney which replaced it (and was built on its foundations?).
I don't know what single English word might be used to describe it.
"Outwork" works, theoretically, but is not really all that familiar to me (at least); and here's the OED on that word (note the "Obs." under 2.):
1. a. Any part of the fortifications of a place lying outside the parapet; any detached or advanced work forming part of the defence of a place; an outer defence. Also (and earliest) in extended use.
2. Work done on the outside or exterior of something; a piece of such work. ***Obs.***
1716 in R. Willis & J. W. Clark Archit. Hist. Univ. Cambr. (1886) II. 223 For the workemen in fitting up the six chambers their out work, in his new Addition to his Refronting the Coll. wth freestone.
(This early 18th c. instance of use looks right on the money, for our purposes.)
And, perversely, then there's this:
3. An extra dish served as a relish; = HORS D'UVRE n. 2. Obs.
However, there is not architectural sense in the OED under "hors d'oeuvre."
It seems obvious to me that "hors d'oeuvre" in this context means, literally, "outside (beyond) of the works (building)."
Clearly, alas, it's not a question of an (Eng.) "cabinet" but, as Sandra's P.R. reference says, of a (Fr.) "piece," i.e., "room."
And we can probably presume that it's not a room made out of fois gras spread on little crackers.
Here's the (on-line) Tresor de la langue Fr.:
"HORS(-)D'ŒUVRE, (HORS DŒUVRE, HORS-DŒUVRE)subst. masc.
"A. ARCHIT. Partie d'un édifice en saillie qui ne fait pas partie de l'ordonnance générale de l'ensemble. Cette partie du bâtiment est un hors-d'œuvre (NOËL 1968)."
The text tells us that it's a small (relatively, being part of a palace) room, but large (and important) enough to have been decorated with a fresco (of Spring? think: Botticelli) and yet small enough to be obliterated (remplacé) by a massive fireplace.
What was it, a large closet, a little "chambre de laisons royales"?
We can't know, from this text.
But, it does seem that it did project out from the main building (perhaps built as an afterthought?), just as did the chimney which replaced it (and was built on its foundations?).
I don't know what single English word might be used to describe it.
"Outwork" works, theoretically, but is not really all that familiar to me (at least); and here's the OED on that word (note the "Obs." under 2.):
1. a. Any part of the fortifications of a place lying outside the parapet; any detached or advanced work forming part of the defence of a place; an outer defence. Also (and earliest) in extended use.
2. Work done on the outside or exterior of something; a piece of such work. ***Obs.***
1716 in R. Willis & J. W. Clark Archit. Hist. Univ. Cambr. (1886) II. 223 For the workemen in fitting up the six chambers their out work, in his new Addition to his Refronting the Coll. wth freestone.
(This early 18th c. instance of use looks right on the money, for our purposes.)
And, perversely, then there's this:
3. An extra dish served as a relish; = HORS D'UVRE n. 2. Obs.
However, there is not architectural sense in the OED under "hors d'oeuvre."
It seems obvious to me that "hors d'oeuvre" in this context means, literally, "outside (beyond) of the works (building)."
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you both for your time and effort. I think a short explanation like this is clearest for readers."
48 mins
As you suggest..
The only ref I can find is this: http://archives.norfolk.gov.uk/documents/pdf/NRO026_GY_Town_...
'The wall is also one of the few to have associated earthworks surviving. These include the rampires in the churchyard and behind the section of wall facing Blackfriars Road. In a report of 1966 the Borough Archivist stated that there were still 'some vestiges' of the South Mount: this was an earthwork on the South Quay, between the river and the site of the South Gate. This area is now covered by the Mayer Parry recycling plant. The historian St J. O'Neill considered Yarmouth to have the only remains still existing in England of a ravelin - that is a triangular defensive outwork in front of the wall'
where they use your term to describe something jutting out from the wall.
Oxf dic gives outwork as 'an outer section of a fortification or system of defence.
.. Im desperately trying to think of descriptions I've seen on visits to castles/palaces etc for another word-I can see the structure in my mind's eye but Google isnt being very helpful. Even Wordref.com uses the same definition-so perhaps in your case it would be OK to use this term
Mind you I dont know much about these things but it might give you food for thought!
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Note added at 49 mins (2007-07-10 11:37:07 GMT)
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Good Luck and sorry not to have been more helpful
'The wall is also one of the few to have associated earthworks surviving. These include the rampires in the churchyard and behind the section of wall facing Blackfriars Road. In a report of 1966 the Borough Archivist stated that there were still 'some vestiges' of the South Mount: this was an earthwork on the South Quay, between the river and the site of the South Gate. This area is now covered by the Mayer Parry recycling plant. The historian St J. O'Neill considered Yarmouth to have the only remains still existing in England of a ravelin - that is a triangular defensive outwork in front of the wall'
where they use your term to describe something jutting out from the wall.
Oxf dic gives outwork as 'an outer section of a fortification or system of defence.
.. Im desperately trying to think of descriptions I've seen on visits to castles/palaces etc for another word-I can see the structure in my mind's eye but Google isnt being very helpful. Even Wordref.com uses the same definition-so perhaps in your case it would be OK to use this term
Mind you I dont know much about these things but it might give you food for thought!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 49 mins (2007-07-10 11:37:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Good Luck and sorry not to have been more helpful
Note from asker:
| You have been very helpful and I appreciate all your effort. |
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