Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
pôles directionnels
English translation:
business and administration centres
Added to glossary by
Carol Gullidge
Nov 28, 2008 16:23
15 yrs ago
French term
United Kingdom
poetically precise prose with... panache
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English
pôles directionnels
French to English
Social Sciences
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
urbanization, mobility and social exclusion
Qui correspond comme le dit Bernard Lepetit au seul réseau général de circulation urbaine : « Grands ensembles, villes nouvelles, nouveaux villages, zones industrielles, centres commerciaux, ******pôles directionnels******, campus : la ville s’édifie selon une typologie dont chacun des éléments renvoie moins aux autres qu’à la conjoncture propre qui l’a vu naître et à la localisation dans un espace éclaté.
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in an article about mobility and social exclusion. So far, I have "Large complexes, new towns, new villages, industrial estates, shopping centres, xxxx centres (?)" but am stuck on this term - which seems to take on a different meaning depending on the context in which it is found (poles apart, you could say!).
The context here is urbanization, and nothing to do with poles or directions.
Could "directionnel" here have anything to do with business and management? If so, I can find no corroboration of this in dictionnaries or elsewhere. Could this be a "management centre", or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Many thanks for your help!
_____
in an article about mobility and social exclusion. So far, I have "Large complexes, new towns, new villages, industrial estates, shopping centres, xxxx centres (?)" but am stuck on this term - which seems to take on a different meaning depending on the context in which it is found (poles apart, you could say!).
The context here is urbanization, and nothing to do with poles or directions.
Could "directionnel" here have anything to do with business and management? If so, I can find no corroboration of this in dictionnaries or elsewhere. Could this be a "management centre", or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Many thanks for your help!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | business and management centres |
kashew
|
| 4 | target destinations |
Karen Vincent-Jones (X)
|
| 3 | administrative centres |
B D Finch
|
| 3 | Business park |
ArabellaCE (X)
|
| 2 | hubs |
ormiston
|
| 1 | competency clusters |
John Peterson
|
Proposed translations
19 hrs
Selected
business and management centres
*
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "many thanks kashew, and everybody else! This was really hard, as so many of these terms can have other connotations (eg, administrative centre = seat of local government) and "management and business" is often associated with University faculties..."
21 mins
John Peterson
Native in English
Specializes in field
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, English to French, Turkish to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
19
competency clusters
Very much a guess, though the term crops up in an urban context (and within organisations as parts of the business where specific skills are grouped together - presumably for synergy?).
Could work if you can see the city as an "organisation" - don't know if they could include science and business parks (where "pôle" often crops up as a term).
Could work if you can see the city as an "organisation" - don't know if they could include science and business parks (where "pôle" often crops up as a term).
Note from asker:
| many thanks John for the suggestion. I'm trying to get my head around this, although, so far, I've found this definition: "A Competency Cluster is a list of competencies organised in broad groups " Worth a try though :) |
36 mins
hubs
it's all I can think of in this context, i.e. thoroughfares linking A to B to C etc. that form clusters of traffic, but I don't really see how it fits into your list unless you keep it vague.
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Note added at 55 mins (2008-11-28 17:18:59 GMT)
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just maybe like a spaghetti junction, with through traffic heading to particular destinations
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Note added at 55 mins (2008-11-28 17:18:59 GMT)
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just maybe like a spaghetti junction, with through traffic heading to particular destinations
Note from asker:
| many thanks ormiston! I think of a hub more as a centre - which is along the lines of what I was proposing. But it's the "directionnel" part that is really stumping me... |
3 hrs
target destinations
I think this means specific features that attract visitors- it's a common term in regional planning documents.
Reference:
http://www2.ville.montreal.qc.ca/ocpm/pdf/19/16b.pdf
http://www.regionaltourism.com.au/ARTRC/destinations/dest_project.html
Note from asker:
| many thanks Karen! I was thinking along the lines of a more specific built-up area, along the lines of the others in the list, but that doesn't mean this isn't also worth considering! (although the "target destinations" in the 2nd link refer to target tourist destinations - which does rather rule these out) |
16 hrs
administrative centres
"Direction" being management, but one would not call them "management centres" in English.
Cf.
"Pôle directionnel et commercial, il s’étend au sud de Rome, à moins de 15 mn de la gare Termini en métro. L’origine de l’EUR remonte à 1937, ..."
www.hotels-rome.fr/fr/hotel-rome.asp?id=846
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Note added at 17 hrs (2008-11-29 10:12:22 GMT)
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Actually, the Rome ref is not a very good one, the main reason I included it was that it neatly put together "directionnel et commercial" and if you Google "commercial and administrative centre" you will find '000s of ghits. This helps to confirm that it is not just about public administration.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2008-11-29 10:13:45 GMT)
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i.e. business administration and public administration - office work in general ...
Cf.
"Pôle directionnel et commercial, il s’étend au sud de Rome, à moins de 15 mn de la gare Termini en métro. L’origine de l’EUR remonte à 1937, ..."
www.hotels-rome.fr/fr/hotel-rome.asp?id=846
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Note added at 17 hrs (2008-11-29 10:12:22 GMT)
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Actually, the Rome ref is not a very good one, the main reason I included it was that it neatly put together "directionnel et commercial" and if you Google "commercial and administrative centre" you will find '000s of ghits. This helps to confirm that it is not just about public administration.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2008-11-29 10:13:45 GMT)
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i.e. business administration and public administration - office work in general ...
Note from asker:
| many thanks BD! "Management centres" does exist, but administrative centres sounds much more convincing... Btw, I'd already found that Rome link, but could find no explanation of what the term actually is... |
3 days 7 hrs
Business park
maybe this is missing one yr looking for out of all those purpose built out-of-town complexes....
maybe I've been watching the Simpsons too much, but try a google search on this term and you'll quickly see what I mean..!.
hope this helps
See e.g www.businessparks.net/ or www.Business Parks i-uk.com
maybe I've been watching the Simpsons too much, but try a google search on this term and you'll quickly see what I mean..!.
hope this helps
See e.g www.businessparks.net/ or www.Business Parks i-uk.com
Note from asker:
| many thanks Arabella! But I think this is probably much the same as "industrial estates", which I already have. |
Reference comments
1 hr
Reference:
sites.univ-provence.fr/wmip/mip_lettre/e_letters_pdf/MIP_Provence_lettre_13.pdf
Marseille (extract)
La première phase de l'opération, en cours de réalisation,
s'appuie sur la restructuration de trois pôles de
développement : la Joliette, pôle international d'affaires, le
pôle Saint-Charles - Porte d'Aix, futur CENTRE DIRECTIONNEL,
et le secteur Saint-Jean, pôle d'échanges méditerranéens,
et fait une large part à la reconquête des espaces publics.
A terme, le nouveau CENTRE DIRECTIONNEL marseillais comprendra
350 000 m2 de bureaux, 210 000 m2 de services
d'accompagnement et 140 000 m2 d'équipements universitaires
et culturels...
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-11-28 17:49:41 GMT)
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Hi! Your business and management centre could be right. Maybe add academic.
La première phase de l'opération, en cours de réalisation,
s'appuie sur la restructuration de trois pôles de
développement : la Joliette, pôle international d'affaires, le
pôle Saint-Charles - Porte d'Aix, futur CENTRE DIRECTIONNEL,
et le secteur Saint-Jean, pôle d'échanges méditerranéens,
et fait une large part à la reconquête des espaces publics.
A terme, le nouveau CENTRE DIRECTIONNEL marseillais comprendra
350 000 m2 de bureaux, 210 000 m2 de services
d'accompagnement et 140 000 m2 d'équipements universitaires
et culturels...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-11-28 17:49:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Hi! Your business and management centre could be right. Maybe add academic.
Note from asker:
| many thanks kashew! Your reference does indeed point in that direction. That's amazing, as it was only a hard-earned guess! |
16 hrs
Reference:
A bit more evidence for 'business centre'
La basse vallée du Var doit devenir le pôle directionnel de la conurbation, en recevant un centre d'affaire branché sur l'aéroport et de nombreux services publics délocalisés depuis le centre-ville (centre administratif départemental).
http://books.google.fr/books?id=pgFezU82NF0C&pg=PA84&lpg=PA8...
And also including local government offices (préfecture?) and services.
http://books.google.fr/books?id=pgFezU82NF0C&pg=PA84&lpg=PA8...
And also including local government offices (préfecture?) and services.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| neutral |
B D Finch
: The "services publics délocalisés" aren't businesses and this "pôle directionnel" **includes** a business centre "centre d'affaire".
37 mins
|
|
That's what I meant, even if I have expressed it very well. A mix of business and public institutions.
|
Discussion
For some reason, I'm unable to use the "Post a note" facility...
Many thanks Alain for the corroboration - perhaps some sort of "power house" then?
Whatever, it's clearly not as simple as I imagined it would be
I'm not sure if the order of the terms is deliberate, but the list broadly seems to follow a sequence: residential, industry/commerce and then knowledge/culture. So given that pôle directionnel precedes campus, it could fall under a "knowledge/culture" heading as a generic term for the aforementioned science parks etc.
Maybe just "activity cluster" - but enough thinking out loud!