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Sep 18, 2009 11:13
14 yrs ago
French term

fait d’art

French to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting cinema
Is this a set phrase? A philosophical or critical term?

"Par ailleurs, issue des formes originelles du cabaret américain – burlesque et vaudeville –– la comédie musicale est structurée en morceaux, fragments, numéros qui introduisent une discontinuité dans le récit linéaire et valent par eux-mêmes : ainsi le cinéma réintroduit-il la scène à l’écran et rend-il hommage au fait d’art, à l’artifice, avec une concentration joyeuse."
Proposed translations (English)
3 -1 art for art's sake
3 +3 artistic fact
3 +3 artefact
4 artistic phenomenon
3 +1 artistic conceit
3 artistic freedom/artistic licence
3 creation
3 "the act of art" or "the act of creating art"

Discussion

David Vaughn (asker) Sep 18, 2009:
text The text insists eslewhere on the rupture in musical comedy, when they break into song and dance - "la scène" showing up in the movies. It's likely this is at least part of the "artiface". Note that the context here is CINEMA, and not stage musical comedy. The author is interested in this juxtaposition of conventions - the pseudo-realism of American cinema disrupted by people dancing their lives.
Richardson Lisa Sep 18, 2009:
meaning of the whole as i understand it the morceaux, fragments etc are being considered as a valuable part of the process and worthy in their own right (valent par eux-memes) and it is this side product of the 'true' art product that = fait d'art here.However, artifice brings to mind Brecht here, so maybe this is talking about purposeful devices(artifice) that break up the whole performance. Thinking out loud again so hope this makes sense.
Geraldine Oudin Sep 18, 2009:
Thanks Carol I'll let the English NS decide what suits better in English. I just gave you my "feeling" as a French NS...
Cela me faisait surtout penser aux performances artistique...Sometimes, the process IS the product.
Lianne Wilson Sep 18, 2009:
Entirely off-topic, but... ...with references to burlesque and vaudeville, that sounds like you've been given a fascinating translation to do!
Helen Shiner Sep 18, 2009:
For me that is what artifice means - the making of art. Whereas the fait d'art is the product.
Carol Gullidge Sep 18, 2009:
acte artistique actually, I tend to agree with France-Japon, and was about to add this to my suggestion when I saw this!
Geraldine Oudin Sep 18, 2009:
acte artistique tout à fait spontanément cela me fait plutôt penser à "acte artistique"
Helen Shiner Sep 18, 2009:
Hi David I haven't met this phrase before, but to me it reads as if it is another way of saying 'artifice' - perhaps 'artefact'?

Proposed translations

-1
13 mins
Selected

art for art's sake


celebrating art for art's sake, ...

is how I see it: just for the mere fact of being "art", just because it's art

Peer comment(s):
disagree Helen Shiner : That would be 'l'art pour l'art' and that is about the autonomy of art.//For me the product can be the process, too, so in that regard I also agree with France-Japon. I see no distinction between his/her's and mine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_for_ar
20 mins
thanks Helen for your comment. However, as they say, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat! In fact, I rather prefer France-Japon's intrpretation to any of ours, but won't go so far as to post a disagree with anyone else's suggestions
neutral Emma Paulay : I think it can be read that way too. My first thought was "art itself".
1 hr
thanks Emma. Yes, that has pretty much the same meaning as art for art's sake.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "In consultation with the author, this best covered the concept she wanted to express."
+3
6 mins

artistic fact

exists as a philosophical term, c.f. aesthetic fact
http://books.google.lu/books?id=7I4CeseZ-cUC&pg=PA333&lpg=PA...

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Note added at 10 mins (2009-09-18 11:23:53 GMT)
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the actual doing of art
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway : yes, not exactly something that can be held in your hand
5 hrs
thanks P ;-)
agree jean-jacques alexandre
6 hrs
thanks JJ :-)
agree robin25
3 days 9 hrs
Something went wrong...
36 mins

artistic freedom/artistic licence

imaginery, unreal
Something went wrong...
1 hr

creation

The cnrs definition in Helen's answer equates "fait d'art" to "création", which also works in English. Although "artefact" doesn't necessarily describe a tangible object, it does suggest that to me, which is why I don't think it would be appropriate here.

Something went wrong...
+3
7 mins

artefact

Le terme « artefactuel » est
utilisé par la communauté STIC
car il fait référence à un
« artefact », littéralement
un « fait d’art », autrement dit
une création.
Le terme « artificiel » tend
à être abandonné bien que
plus accessible au grand public
car il évoque l’idée d’une fausse
intelligence.
http://www.cnrs.fr/Cnrspresse/n396/pdf/n396os01p05.pdf

Perhaps that will help.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2009-09-18 11:22:07 GMT)
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http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pi5HqRlBRO4C&pg=PA43&lpg=...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2009-09-18 11:26:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ARTEFACT, ARTI- (angl. < artis factum fait d’art) idem

http://www.premiumwanadoo.com/dicobretonfavereau/francaisbre...

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Note added at 39 mins (2009-09-18 11:52:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It says that cinema 'reintroduces' the scène to the écran, in other words the action, if you like, to the canvas/frame (obviously screen/surface for projection here). I do think a distinction is being made here between the artefact and the artifice - product and process. I agree that a product can be the process and that can also be implicit in the term 'artefact' - facture being the making.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-09-18 14:22:10 GMT)
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Maybe 'artfulness' would be another way of saying 'artifice' or stressing that this is a product of the artistic process or something that is created rather than based on life or the natural flow of things. Another suggestion - based on your context, too - might be to say 'the product of art, the artifice' or something along those lines.

I still think 'artefact' is fine, but only you can judge the level of the audience, obviously. If it is an academic piece or for an informed audience, then 'artefact' would be understood as having the meaning I indicate - ie not a museum piece or archaeological find, but something created not naturally occurring.
Peer comment(s):
agree Evans (X)
1 hr
Thank you, Gilla
agree Susan Nicholls
1 hr
Thanks, Susan
agree philgoddard : This would be my choice - but it does create the problem that you have two very similar-looking words, artefact and artifice, that mean almost the same thing. You might have to lose one of them.
3 hrs
Thanks, philgoddard - I am pretty sure the author wants to indicate product and process, which these two terms do. I quite like their conjunction, since together they make the meaning of the first term clearer.
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3 hrs

artistic phenomenon

Hello,

I would think this is simply an "artistic phenonomen"

fait = reality/pheonomenon

I would not translate "fait" by "fact" here.

I hope this helpsl
Something went wrong...
+1
2 days 52 mins

artistic conceit

paying tribute to the particular artistic conceit of musical comedy which is made up snatches of music, dance routines, comedy etc. , and, indeed, "artifice", "conceit" here in the sense of conception, conceptualisation
Reference:

http://www.cycleback.com/threeconceits.html

Peer comment(s):
agree John Detre : not sure if this is what the French means but this one sounds best to me -- probably broad enough to cover any intended meaning...
2 hrs
Thanks John - and "fait d'art" is pretty broad too isn't it
Something went wrong...
3 days 13 hrs

"the act of art" or "the act of creating art"

:
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