Nov 30, 2010 00:41
13 yrs ago
10 viewers *
German term

elektrotechnisch qualifiziertes Personal

German to English Tech/Engineering Electronics / Elect Eng
Ok, I'm probably nitpicking here but I'm in a bit of a quandary. My options are:

1) personnel who are skilled electricians
2) personnel skilled in electrical engineering

I'm doubting 1) because you can be an electrician without having studied electrical engineering. The word "qualifiziertes" probably means that the person underwent some formal training and passed an exam, right? So a third option might be more correct:

3) personnel who are certified electricians

Help appreciated

Discussion

Johannes Gleim Dec 21, 2010:
qualified or skilled personnel is very often used 3.780.000 Google hits for "qualified personnel" and even 1.720.000 hits for "skilled personnel". I am acquainted with both terms since I started my job as approvals engineer in 1985. And with my current job as factory inspector I encounter these terms used for warnings weekly as being stipulated in most cases by the relevant UL and IEC standards.
Tony M Dec 21, 2010:
Note that... ..for many years, electronic equipment (like home entertainment etc.) has carried warning labels "To be opened by qualified personnel only; no user-serviceable parts inside" — representing just this 'woolly' use of 'qualified' in EN that is being discussed here.

I am not myself qualified to comment on the woolliness or otherwise of the source term in DE, though I believe it would be equally woolly if used in my other working language, FR. They do at least make a distinction between 'habilité' and 'qualifié', which helps a bit!
gangels (X) Dec 21, 2010:
'Qualified' electro-technicians I can only give the USA reading: Certain jobs need to be state-certified and a license issued before they can be practiced. There are, for instance, medical doctors at the top of the scale, but also jobs that carry safety risks with them like electricians, elevator mechanics, nurses etc. That's why in the USA, a want ad will always state "licensed" in its job description. "Qualified" is a myopic term which says nothing about your actual skill level. I may think I am qualified to do something, but let others be the judge. So I think the answer is wrong.
Johannes Gleim Nov 30, 2010:
other definitions: Qualifiziertes Personal sind Personen, die aufgrund ihrer Ausbildung, Erfahrung, Unterweisung
sowie Kenntnisse über einschlägige Normen und Bestimmungen, Unfallverhütungsvorschriften
und Betriebsverhältnisse von dem für die Sicherheit der Anlage Verantwortlichen
berechtigt worden sind, die jeweils erforderlichen Tätigkeiten auszuführen und dabei mögliche
Gefahren erkennen und vermeiden können.
(Definition für Fachkräfte nach IEC 364)
http://www.mosca-elektronik.de/pages/products/downloads/sp_1...

It is assumed that maintenance work is carried out by qualified personnel (for definition of qualified personnel, see
DIN VDE 0105 or IEC 364).
Es wird vorausgesetzt, dass die Instandhaltungsarbeiten von qualifiziertem Personal (Definition für Fachkräfte siehe
DIN VDE 0105 oder IEC 364) ausgeführt werden.
http://www.automation.siemens.com/DocOnWeb/pdf/SINUMERIK_SIN...
Johannes Gleim Nov 30, 2010:
What does elektrotechnisch qualifiziertes Personal means?

Definition qualifiziertes Personal:
Im Sinne der Betriebsanleitung bzw. der Warnhinweise auf dem Produkt selbst sind Personen, die mit Aufstellung, Montage, Inbetriebsetzung und Betrieb des Produktes vertraut sind und über die ihrer Tätigkeit
entsprechende Qualifikationen verfügen wie z.B.:
a) Ausbildung oder Unterweisung bzw. Berechtigung, Stromkreise
und Geräte gemäß den Standards der Sicherheitstechnik anzuschließen, ein- und auszuschalten, zu erden und zu
kennzeichnen.
b) Ausbildung oder Unterweisung gemäß den Standards der Sicherheitstechnik in Pflege und Gebrauch angemessener
Sicherheitsausrüstung
c) Schulung in Erster Hilfe
als qualifiziertes Personal anzusehen.
http://www.heidolph-elektro.de/media/dbmedia/files/HeiDrive_...

Proposed translations

+6
4 hrs
Selected

Qualified electrician

Or perhaps electrical engineer, however, I suspect that it depends slightly on the context.

If, for example, it is someone to commission, maintain or install an electrical item then I would suggest a qualified electrician is required. If, on the other hand, it is in a job description for a particular customer care representative then electrical engineer may be more appropriate. More context please!
Peer comment(s):

agree Richard Stephen : Why make it simple, if you can be complicated (in reference to the German terminology)
37 mins
Indeed, except for translators where it is a bonus, why use two words when twenty five will do as well? :)
agree BrigitteHilgner : Looks appropriate to me.
54 mins
neutral Johannes Gleim : electricians may be qualified for the specific work, but other staff too. All depends on the work and training.
1 hr
If it is here in Germany then in the main a vocational qualification as an electrician is required, or a Meisterbrief to sign off the work. Depends as you say on the exact context.
agree Colin Rowe
4 hrs
agree Kim Metzger
11 hrs
agree Cilian O'Tuama : or depending on context maybe "suitably qualified electrician"
12 hrs
agree Thayenga
1 day 1 hr
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everyone"
26 mins

qualified electrical personnel

-
Something went wrong...
11 hrs

Licensed electro-technicians

In the US, you need a license to work on things electrical and is predicated on some sort of publicly recognized training or education.

It conveniently circumvents the question of skill-level, i.e., electrician, layout man/designer or engineer
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : The problem is, in many situations, one can be 'qualified' (to some level or another), but not necessarily 'licensed' — so depending on the context, this might be over-translation.
15 days
Something went wrong...
-3
6 hrs

electro-technically skilled labour or electro-technically qualified personnel

de Terminus qualifiziertes Personal
Zuverlässigkeit 3 (Zuverlässig)
Quelle cf.RF FR
Datum 24/09/2003

en Terminus skilled labour
Zuverlässigkeit 3 (Zuverlässig)
Quelle Vocabulaire POLITIQUE RÉGIONALE,C.E.1997;SdT/C/3
Datum 24/09/2003
http://iate.europa.eu/iatediff/SearchByQuery.do?method=searc...

Sie haben auch die besten Chancen für einen beruflichen Neuanfang oder den Sprung auf der Karriereleiter, denn in vielen Ländern wird hoch qualifiziertes Fachpersonal gesucht.
They are the ones with the best chances of starting a new career or jumping a few rungs up the career ladder, as many countries are short of highly-qualified specialists.
:
Entwicklung berufsbezogener Ausbildungsgänge, um die Defizite an qualifiziertem Fachpersonal zu beheben.
develop training designed to make good the lack of qualified labour and specific skills.
http://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch?tparam2=german&query=...

Sie sind elektrotechnisch befähigte Personen.
They are electro-technically qualified personnel.
http://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/search?sourceoverride...

No mention of grades. The qualified staff could be either electricians, technicians or engineers.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2010-11-30 07:08:10 GMT)
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electrical engineering [tech.] die Elektrotechnik
http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType...

Störungen an der elektrischen Anlage dürfen nur durch
elektrotechnisch qualifiziertes Personal behoben werden
Electrical faults must only be repaired by authorized
personnel.
http://www.bernkopf.de/media/products/0114881001233072803.pd...

Additional proposal derived from a.m. terminology:

staff or personnel qualified or skilled in electrical engineering.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2010-11-30 07:25:04 GMT)
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This course is suitable for experienced mechanical and electrical personnel, who have been nominated for appointment as authorised person electrical standby systems. It offers an introduction to the basic principle component
:
This course is suitable for skilled and authorised persons who have a mandatory requirement to comply with the DEO electrical safety rule book, associated with the SRP 01 safety rules and procedures. It provides participants
:
This course is suitable for mechanical and electrical maintenance staff, prospective authorised Persons, managers and senior apprentices who have responsibilities for HV switchgear.
:
This course is suitable for electrical staffs that are to be nominated for competent persons duties required by HTM's.
:
and other
http://www.hotcourses.com/uk-courses/certificate-electrical-...

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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-11-30 17:45:53 GMT)
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I have to add english definitions for "qualifiziertes Personal":

It is assumed that maintenance work is carried out by qualified personnel (for definition of qualified personnel, see
DIN VDE 0105 or IEC 364).
Es wird vorausgesetzt, dass die Instandhaltungsarbeiten von qualifiziertem Personal (Definition für Fachkräfte siehe
DIN VDE 0105 oder IEC 364) ausgeführt werden.
http://www.automation.siemens.com/DocOnWeb/pdf/SINUMERIK_SIN...

Qualified Personnel
The device/system may only be set up and operated in conjunction with this manual. Only qualified personnel should be allowed to install and work on the this equipment.
Qualified persons are defined as persons who are authorized to commission, to ground, and to bag circuits, equipment, and systems in accordance with established safety practices and standards.
http://www.cadfamily.com/downinfo/284958.html

All operations concerning transport, installation, and commissioning as well as maintenance must be carried out by qualified, skilled personnel (IEC 364/CENELEC HD 384 or DIN VDE 0100 and IEC report 664 or DIN VDE 0110 and national regulations for the prevention of accidentsmust be observed).
According to this basic safety information qualified, skilled personnel are persons who are familiar with the assembly, installation, commissioning, and operation of the product andwho have the qualifications necessary for their occupation.
http://khup.com/download/23_keyword-cenelec-hd-364/4-j.pdf
http://khup.com/download/26_keyword-cenelec-hd-364/3-7.pdf

Only properly qualified personnel is permitted to perform activities such as transport, installation, setup and maintenance. Properly qualified persons are those who are familiar with the transport, assembly, installation, setup and operation of the product, and who have the appropriate qualifications for their job
http://www.doli.de/dokumente/MA_EDC_Sicherheit.pdf

It is intended for use by technically qualified personal. Qualified personnel are persons who, because of their training, experience and position as well as their knowledge of appropriate standards, regulations, health and safety requirements and working conditions, are authorised to be responsible for the safety of the equipment, at all times, whilst carrying out their normal duties and are therefore aware of, and can report, possible hazards (Definition of qualified employees according to IEC 364)
http://www.reo.ch/pdfs/secmulti2.pdf

All work on the measuring system must only be carried
out by qualified personnel.
Qualified personnel includes persons, who, through their
training, experience and instruction, as well as their
knowledge of the relevant standards, provisions, accident
prevention regulations and operating conditions, have
been authorized by the persons responsible for the system
to carry out the required work and are able to recognize
and avoid potential hazards.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/4129250#discussion_board

Operation, installation and maintenance work should only be executed by personnel who are:
Competent, qualified persons (definition of experts acc. to IEC 364)
Qualified persons for reasons of their training, experience and instruction are persons who do their necessary activities without
danger and who can avoid this danger due to their knowledge of directives, regulations for the prevention of accidents and
standards.
http://www.pfaff-silberblau2.co.uk/pdfs/instructions/cable_d...

These definitions provided by Siemens, Lenze and other famous companies are based on the IEC definition (IEC 364) and will support my proposal "qualified/skilled person(nel)" in (field of expertise or experience), in this case in electrical engineering.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-11-30 17:47:50 GMT)
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Sorry, one link was copied by mistaken. Please replace
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/4129250#discussion_board
by
http://www.trelectronic.com/products/rotaryencoders/absolute...

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Note added at 18 hrs (2010-11-30 19:16:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Additional definitions (in German):

What does18:12

elektrotechnisch qualifiziertes Personal means?

Definition qualifiziertes Personal:
Im Sinne der Betriebsanleitung bzw. der Warnhinweise auf dem Produkt selbst sind Personen, die mit Aufstellung, Montage, Inbetriebsetzung und Betrieb des Produktes vertraut sind und über die ihrer Tätigkeit
entsprechende Qualifikationen verfügen wie z.B.:
a) Ausbildung oder Unterweisung bzw. Berechtigung, Stromkreise
und Geräte gemäß den Standards der Sicherheitstechnik anzuschließen, ein- und auszuschalten, zu erden und zu
kennzeichnen.
b) Ausbildung oder Unterweisung gemäß den Standards der Sicherheitstechnik in Pflege und Gebrauch angemessener
Sicherheitsausrüstung
c) Schulung in Erster Hilfe
als qualifiziertes Personal anzusehen.
http://www.heidolph-elektro.de/media/dbmedia/files/HeiDrive_...

Qualifiziertes Personal sind Personen, die aufgrund ihrer Ausbildung, Erfahrung, Unterweisung
sowie Kenntnisse über einschlägige Normen und Bestimmungen, Unfallverhütungsvorschriften
und Betriebsverhältnisse von dem für die Sicherheit der Anlage Verantwortlichen
berechtigt worden sind, die jeweils erforderlichen Tätigkeiten auszuführen und dabei mögliche
Gefahren erkennen und vermeiden können.
(Definition für Fachkräfte nach IEC 364)
http://www.mosca-elektronik.de/pages/products/downloads/sp_1...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 days (2010-12-11 22:31:39 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Similar definiton in the International Vocabulary (Electropedia):

EN (electrically) skilled person
person with relevant education and experience to enable him or her to perceive risks and to avoid hazards which electricity can create
Source: 195-04-01
FR personne qualifiée (en électricité), f
personne ayant la formation et l'expérience appropriées pour lui permettre de percevoir les risques et d'éviter les dangers que peut présenter l'électricité
Source: 195-04-01
DE Elektrofachkraft, f
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&iev...

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Note added at 11 days (2010-12-11 22:33:39 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Auch in VDE 0100-200 habe ich eine ähnlich Definition gefunden. Das Abschreiben möchte ich mir aber jetzt ersparen.

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Note added at 21 days (2010-12-21 21:15:06 GMT) Post-grading
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Some links relating to standards:

Sämtliche Tätigkeiten bei Transport, Installation und Inbetriebnahme sowie Wartungsarbeiten müssen von qualifiziertem und geschultem Fachpersonal durchgeführt werden (IEC 364 und CENELEC HD 384 oder DIN VDE 0100 und IEC-Report 664 oder DIN VDE 0110 sowie nationale Unfallverhütungsvorschriften müssen beachtet werden).
:
All operations concerning transport, installation, and commissioning as well as maintenance must be carried out by qualified, skilled personnel (IEC 364 and CENELEC HD 384 or DIN VDE 0100 and IEC report 664 or DIN VDE0110 and national regulations for the prevention of accidents must be observed).
http://src.lenze.com/lenze-bibliothek/de/A1_Frequenzumrichte...

According to this basic safety information qualified skilled personnel are persons who are familiar with the installation, assembly, commissioning, and operation of the product and who have the qualifications necessary for their occupation.
:
UL 508C Underwriters Laboratories - Power Conversion Equipment
http://www.poshautomation.com/downloads/SMD Manual.pdf

Qualified personnel
Only skilled personnel should be allowed to start and operate this device. Qualified personnel in the sense of the information on safety technology in this manual are persons who are authorized to commission, to ground and to tag circuits, equipment and systems in accordance with safety regulations and standards.
http://www.idec.com/language/english/manual/FL1CManual.pdf

carefully read the instructions stated herein conforming to L.V. EEC/73/23 Standards. The instructions are to be fully and duly complied with before skilled personnel and qualified technicians start up the electric motor. Keep in mind that this manual does not exempt anyone from applying all those technical standards envisaged in the specific sector of electric motors or those general standards associated with the safety of persons, animals or property EN 60204-1 set forth by the EEC.
http://www.nerimotori.com/cgi-bin/pdf/install_tech_manual.pd...

Fachpersonal
Die in diesem Dokument beschriebenen Arbeiten dürfen
nur durch Personen ausgeführt werden, welche die geeignete
technische Ausbildung besitzen und über die nötigen
Erfahrungen verfügen oder durch den Betreiber entsprechend
geschult wurden
:
Skilled personnel
All work described in this document may only be carried out
by persons who have suitable technical training and the
necessary experience or who have been instructed by the
end-user of the product.
http://www.inficon.com/download/en/tiqa01d2.pdf

sind die einsatzspezifischen Sicherheits- und Unfallverhütungsvorschriften einzuhalten, wie z.B.:
- EN 60204, Elektrische Ausrüstung von Maschinen
the safety and accident prevention regulations specific to use must be complied with, e.g.:
- EN 60204, Electrical equipment of machines
:
... darf nur von Fachpersonal nach geltenden Vorschriften in spannungsfreiem Zustand und bei ausgeschalteter Maschine erfolgen. Die Maschine muss gegen Wiedereinschalten gesichert sein.
... may only be carried out by skilled personnel according to applicable regulations in de-energized condition and when the machine is switched off. The machine must be secured to ensure that it cannot be switched back on.
http://www.trelectronic.com/data_sheets/Di Soric/Fibre-Optic...

Only properly qualified personnel are permitted to perform such tasks as transport, assembly, commissioning and maintenance of the servo converters ECOVARIO® and ECOSTEP®
http://www.jat-gmbh.de/download/ecosoftware/SW_Inbetriebnahm...

This device may only be installed and put into operation by qualified personnel.
:
Das Gerät darf nur durch fachkundiges und qualifiziertes Personal installiert werden.
:
Cette alimentation doit être installée par du personnel qualifié et compétent.
http://samplecode.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literatu...

I could continue endlessly, but will stop now.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Cilian O'Tuama : electro-technically skilled/qualified are not terms that an ENS would use. // How? Very differently.
4 hrs
You are invited to improve my proposals. How would ENS or you express the fact that only authorized and trained staff is allowed?
disagree Lancashireman : "electrical staffs that are to be nominated for competent persons duties"? This just gets worse as it goes on.
4 hrs
Please do not pick items from EN sites, reproduced in order to show the scope of offered further education! Myself, I support skilled or qualified staff or labour in electrical engineering.
disagree Kim Metzger : Unacceptable choice of words, linguistically speaking./Google: !! No results found for "electro-technically skilled". Several hits for "electro-technically qualified" at German sites.
10 hrs
I was sure, you would disagree as always done, notwithstanding the definitions given by the International Electrotechnical Commission.
Something went wrong...
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