Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Dec 28, 2011 09:25
12 yrs ago
7 viewers *
Spanish term
Papada de monte
Spanish to English
Social Sciences
Cooking / Culinary
Cookery workshop
Clases de cocina
[Día y fecha]
“Mar y monte”, a cargo de [nombre del chef]. Precio: 50 euros.
Menú
Panceta a baja temperatura con cítricos y vieiras salteadas
Arroz de bogavante con morcilla
Chipirones con ****papada de monte**** y cremoso de puré de patata
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance.
[Día y fecha]
“Mar y monte”, a cargo de [nombre del chef]. Precio: 50 euros.
Menú
Panceta a baja temperatura con cítricos y vieiras salteadas
Arroz de bogavante con morcilla
Chipirones con ****papada de monte**** y cremoso de puré de patata
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +4 | wild/mountain pork dewlap | Charles Davis |
3 +4 | pork chaps | Wendy Streitparth |
4 | (pork) cheeks | neilmac |
3 | jowls | Barbara L Pavlik |
Proposed translations
+4
3 hrs
Selected
wild/mountain pork dewlap
The "papada" is not strictly cheek, or jowl as it is called in America. The latter comes from the side of the head:
"Pork jowl is a fatty cut of meat along the side of the head"
http://www.foodista.com/food/DTMZM25R/pork-jowl
This part is called "careta" or "carrillera" in Spanish:
"Carrillera (cheeks):
The carrillera is formed from the muscles of the lower jaw, which are used for movement and chewing."
http://www.foodsfromspain.com/icex/cda/controller/pageSGT/0,...
The "papada" is a fatty piece under the mouth, extending down to the chest. It is what gives human beings a double chin:
"papada
1. f. Abultamiento carnoso que se forma debajo de la barba, o entre ella y el cuello.
2. f. Pliegue cutáneo que sobresale en el borde inferior del cuello de ciertos animales, y se extiende hasta el pecho."
http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltGUIBusUsual?TIPO_HTML=2&TIPO...
"PAPADA DE CERDO IBERICO
Parte grasa situada en la parte inferior de la cabeza debajo de la mandíbula, con corteza, de forma triangular, que va desde el morro inferior al principio de la paleta."
http://iberianmeat.com/productos/
This part is called the dewlap in English:
"However, there are also two pieces of meat, the secreto de papada (dewlap) and a cut from the belly (secreto de barriga), which are known as the “falso secreto” (false secret) as a result of their similar appearance and fat structure, although these are not as tender as the true secreto."
http://www.foodsfromspain.com/icex/cda/controller/pageSGT/0,...
"While there were delicious elements to follow, the meal stalled here. While I loved the beet “balloon” containing beetroot vinaigrette, I didn’t like either the texture or flavor of the pork dewlap (dewlap is the fold of skin hanging below the neck in many vertebrae species)."
http://thelovage.com/2011/carme-ruscalledas-sant-pau/
"The English translation for this mysterious meat spread is seasoned pork lard with cured pork added. And not just any cured pork, but pork dewlap, or the skin and meat below the hog's chin, pig wattle, if you will."
http://www.slashfood.com/tag/pork dewlap/
"Entrepà de vieira, caviar d’albergínia, dau de patata confitada i papada
Bocadillo de vieira, caviar de berenjena, taco de patata confitada y papada
Sandwich of scallop, aubergine caviar, “taco” of candied potato and pork dewlap 15,60 €"
http://www.restaurantethegarden.com/pdf/CartaTheGarden.pdf
"De monte", applied to meat, would normally imply "wild" (ie. roaming free), though it could mean "aromatic", ie. done with "hierbas del monte". But I think the idea is probably that this "papada" comes from "cerdos del monte", or wild pigs, so "wild pork" seems like the best bet. They could perhaps be called "mountain pork", and that might be a good choice if you want to make it "sea and mountain". "Monte" doesn't necessarily mean mountain, though, in fact in this context it probably refers to some sort of high wooded scrubland.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2011-12-28 12:56:29 GMT)
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The "monte" part is tricky. I do think it would normally imply free range -- pigs grazing in a "dehesa" -- rather than from a pig farm. However, something non-committal like "rustic", as Neil has suggested, might be safer. However, I do think this should be called "dewlap", which is what it is, not "cheeks" or "jowls" or "chaps", which all mean the same thing and are different. There are various cuts of head meat and they are not all the same: "papada" is a very specific thing.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2011-12-28 13:15:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here's a coincidence:
"‘Mar i muntanya’ with crispy pork dewlap, saffron ‘allioli’ and grilled squid."
http://www.bcnrestaurantes.com/eng/barcelona.asp?restaurante...
"Pork jowl is a fatty cut of meat along the side of the head"
http://www.foodista.com/food/DTMZM25R/pork-jowl
This part is called "careta" or "carrillera" in Spanish:
"Carrillera (cheeks):
The carrillera is formed from the muscles of the lower jaw, which are used for movement and chewing."
http://www.foodsfromspain.com/icex/cda/controller/pageSGT/0,...
The "papada" is a fatty piece under the mouth, extending down to the chest. It is what gives human beings a double chin:
"papada
1. f. Abultamiento carnoso que se forma debajo de la barba, o entre ella y el cuello.
2. f. Pliegue cutáneo que sobresale en el borde inferior del cuello de ciertos animales, y se extiende hasta el pecho."
http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltGUIBusUsual?TIPO_HTML=2&TIPO...
"PAPADA DE CERDO IBERICO
Parte grasa situada en la parte inferior de la cabeza debajo de la mandíbula, con corteza, de forma triangular, que va desde el morro inferior al principio de la paleta."
http://iberianmeat.com/productos/
This part is called the dewlap in English:
"However, there are also two pieces of meat, the secreto de papada (dewlap) and a cut from the belly (secreto de barriga), which are known as the “falso secreto” (false secret) as a result of their similar appearance and fat structure, although these are not as tender as the true secreto."
http://www.foodsfromspain.com/icex/cda/controller/pageSGT/0,...
"While there were delicious elements to follow, the meal stalled here. While I loved the beet “balloon” containing beetroot vinaigrette, I didn’t like either the texture or flavor of the pork dewlap (dewlap is the fold of skin hanging below the neck in many vertebrae species)."
http://thelovage.com/2011/carme-ruscalledas-sant-pau/
"The English translation for this mysterious meat spread is seasoned pork lard with cured pork added. And not just any cured pork, but pork dewlap, or the skin and meat below the hog's chin, pig wattle, if you will."
http://www.slashfood.com/tag/pork dewlap/
"Entrepà de vieira, caviar d’albergínia, dau de patata confitada i papada
Bocadillo de vieira, caviar de berenjena, taco de patata confitada y papada
Sandwich of scallop, aubergine caviar, “taco” of candied potato and pork dewlap 15,60 €"
http://www.restaurantethegarden.com/pdf/CartaTheGarden.pdf
"De monte", applied to meat, would normally imply "wild" (ie. roaming free), though it could mean "aromatic", ie. done with "hierbas del monte". But I think the idea is probably that this "papada" comes from "cerdos del monte", or wild pigs, so "wild pork" seems like the best bet. They could perhaps be called "mountain pork", and that might be a good choice if you want to make it "sea and mountain". "Monte" doesn't necessarily mean mountain, though, in fact in this context it probably refers to some sort of high wooded scrubland.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2011-12-28 12:56:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The "monte" part is tricky. I do think it would normally imply free range -- pigs grazing in a "dehesa" -- rather than from a pig farm. However, something non-committal like "rustic", as Neil has suggested, might be safer. However, I do think this should be called "dewlap", which is what it is, not "cheeks" or "jowls" or "chaps", which all mean the same thing and are different. There are various cuts of head meat and they are not all the same: "papada" is a very specific thing.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2011-12-28 13:15:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here's a coincidence:
"‘Mar i muntanya’ with crispy pork dewlap, saffron ‘allioli’ and grilled squid."
http://www.bcnrestaurantes.com/eng/barcelona.asp?restaurante...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Helena Chavarria
1 hr
|
Thanks, Helena. Happy New Year :)
|
|
agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: prefer "mountain(y)" to "rustic" but certainly "dewlap"
5 hrs
|
Many thanks, gallagy :)
|
|
agree |
neilmac
: Dewlap sounds tastier than cheek or jowl IMO. And it reminds me of The Ballad of Bonnie and Clyde....
21 hrs
|
Thanks, Neil ;) Just looked it up, and apparently "dewlap bag" in B & C is a mistake for "burlap bag". "Dewlap" sounds quite nice, I suppose (strange word), but I'm not too keen on these fatty bits of head meat myself.
|
|
agree |
Jenni Lukac (X)
: Great reading, Charles!
1 day 9 hrs
|
Thanks very much, Jenni :)
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks everyone. I "dewlap" is definitely the most correct term. Thanks for a very enlightening and helpful discussion and answers."
31 mins
jowls
"Papada" seems to refer here to "jowls."
http://www.linguee.com/english-spanish/search?source=auto&qu...
Not sure about the "de monte" part. Judging from the title, it seems to correlate to a lot of English language menu headings of "Land and Sea," so maybe "jowls of the land?" Mountain jowls? or just plain jowls. Neither of the two options I've mentioned sound very natural. The only jowls I've ever heard mention of in terms of cooking are pig jowls, or pork jowls, but you can't make that leap if you don't know what animal they came from. Hope this at least helps to point you in the right direction.
http://www.linguee.com/english-spanish/search?source=auto&qu...
Not sure about the "de monte" part. Judging from the title, it seems to correlate to a lot of English language menu headings of "Land and Sea," so maybe "jowls of the land?" Mountain jowls? or just plain jowls. Neither of the two options I've mentioned sound very natural. The only jowls I've ever heard mention of in terms of cooking are pig jowls, or pork jowls, but you can't make that leap if you don't know what animal they came from. Hope this at least helps to point you in the right direction.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
neilmac
: Pure cheek ;)
1 hr
|
disagree |
David Ronder
: Jowl: the lower part of a person's or animal's cheek, especially when it is fleshy or drooping: she had a large nose and heavy jowls. (Oxford). No me apetece./Fair point. But while it may be ok in Dixie, I reckon it sounds unappetising to UK Eng speakers.
2 hrs
|
Whether it appeals to you or not, it is nevertheless, commonly used, especially in the southern US. The main consideration here should be where the translation is going. http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pork jowls recipe&ie=utf-8&...
|
+4
2 hrs
pork chaps
with possibly free-range for monte
Peer comment(s):
agree |
patinba
: Right (and a little less off-putting too)
29 mins
|
Mmm - maybe! Thanks, Patinba
|
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agree |
David Ronder
37 mins
|
Thanks David
|
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neutral |
Barbara L Pavlik
: I had never heard of pork chaps before, but this does seem to be a British term for cheek.
1 hr
|
I don't think this is considered such a delicacy in England, maybe thats why! Thanks, Barbara
|
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agree |
neilmac
: May exist, but I`m afraid all it conjures up for me is those overtrousers those cowboys chaps wear....
22 hrs
|
Thanks, Neil. Cowboys or no cowboys, happy New Year!
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agree |
Emiliano Pantoja
6 days
|
Muchas gracias Emiliano!
|
1 hr
(pork) cheeks
Since plagiarism seem to be the name of the game today, here's a calqued suggestion "cheek by jowl". The "de monte" suggests it is from free range pork, or pehaps javalí, although the menu would usually specify this.
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 11:03:28 GMT)
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I actually prefer "cheek" since I think it sounds better (compare, for example, the nuance of adjectives "cheeky" vs "jowly" when describing a person).
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 11:04:51 GMT)
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"Del mar, el mero, y del monte, carnero"...
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 11:07:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Rustic pork cheeks" anyone?
Rustic casserole of pork (cheeks, ear, trotters, chorizo) with Bierzo chickpeas...
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 11:10:05 GMT)
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I'd just leave "Mar y Monte" myself, but how about something like "Sea and Sierra"...?
Sierra = a chain of hills or mountains...
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Note added at 1 day8 mins (2011-12-29 09:33:25 GMT)
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"Surf and Turf" always sounds a bit burgerish to me, maybe it is indeed a UK vs US thing. I can never bring myself to call "mero" grouper either and tend to call it "swordfish", which I know is a lie, but I think it sounds better and sometimes you have to be circumspect.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 11:03:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I actually prefer "cheek" since I think it sounds better (compare, for example, the nuance of adjectives "cheeky" vs "jowly" when describing a person).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 11:04:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Del mar, el mero, y del monte, carnero"...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 11:07:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Rustic pork cheeks" anyone?
Rustic casserole of pork (cheeks, ear, trotters, chorizo) with Bierzo chickpeas...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 11:10:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I'd just leave "Mar y Monte" myself, but how about something like "Sea and Sierra"...?
Sierra = a chain of hills or mountains...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 mins (2011-12-29 09:33:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Surf and Turf" always sounds a bit burgerish to me, maybe it is indeed a UK vs US thing. I can never bring myself to call "mero" grouper either and tend to call it "swordfish", which I know is a lie, but I think it sounds better and sometimes you have to be circumspect.
Note from asker:
"Mar y monte" is what we call "Surf and turf" in English, although I'd rather leave it in Spanish really. It's meat and seafood served together. I also prefer "cheek" here, it's the "monte" bit which threw me, although something like "rustic" might work well, since we can't say if this is free-range. Thanks Neil. :) |
Discussion
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pork jowls recipe&ie=utf-8&...