Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
Alta
English translation:
Registration
- The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2014-09-21 04:54:11 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Sep 17, 2014 22:56
9 yrs ago
57 viewers *
Spanish term
Alta
Spanish to English
Tech/Engineering
Real Estate
this is from information shown on the Real Estate Registry (referencia catastral) in Spain (specifically León/Zamora)
The entire sequence of the entry of identifying information drawn from the Registro Catastral de Inmuebles is:
Titular = Owner
Num. Identificador = Identifying number
Tomo = Volume
Libro = Book
Folio = Sheet (or possibly page)
Alta = ???
It is this last term that has me stumped and I can't find any definition for it.
Many thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Titular = Owner
Num. Identificador = Identifying number
Tomo = Volume
Libro = Book
Folio = Sheet (or possibly page)
Alta = ???
It is this last term that has me stumped and I can't find any definition for it.
Many thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +3 | Registration | Andres Fekete |
4 +2 | entry | Charles Davis |
3 +1 | Recording date | Henry Hinds |
3 | Approved | David Hollywood |
3 | reference number | Michael torhan (X) |
Proposed translations
+3
15 mins
Selected
Registration
Here's another option.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Peter Guest
11 mins
|
Thanks Peter!
|
|
agree |
Andy Watkinson
: Most probably.
2 hrs
|
Thanks Andy!
|
|
agree |
MarinaM
15 hrs
|
Thanks Marina!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
5 mins
Recording date
Or just "Recorded" with date being understood.
Although the CONTEXT is not there. What follows "Alta"?
Although the CONTEXT is not there. What follows "Alta"?
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Juan Jacob
: Creo que tanto alta como baja son términos que han sido preguntados aquí 3 zilliones de veces... pero bueno.
15 mins
|
Gracias, Juan. Sí, aunque según el CONTEXTO puede variar la traducción.
|
12 mins
Approved
depends on what follows ...
29 mins
reference number
You're the one with the source doc and presumably if it's a date then it will be obvious, especially if you have access to more than one entry.
But if it's not a date, I'd go with an innocuous term like this if there's no other clue.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2014-09-18 05:45:29 GMT)
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@andy: I think there'd be more shame in jumping to the conclusion that el alta in this case is the same as el alta in any other cases you've translated in the past. You seem to have concluded that it means -registration-, although I'm not sure how, but what if it's tax roll ID or something else? So yeah, if it were me and I couldn't pinpoint exactly what this is, then I'd at least try a wording with the least harm, and if possible, tie it back to the original doc.
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Note added at 7 hrs (2014-09-18 06:03:40 GMT)
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Again, what gives me pause is that the link I put above includes this data, where ALTA stays constant among all the properties mentioned. The common denominator seems to that there are several properties being seized from one owner. So what is ALTA here, where we have some data to examine? Since this data comes from an island, it's not far-fetched that all these may share a zone-number (for taxes or whatever). But that may be wrong too. My point is that if you cannot tell with certainty what ALTA is even with data to mull over, then how can you hope to arrive at a correct term in Julia's doc where there's no spec of data to examine???
A) FINCA REGISTRAL 4242 TOMO 1731 LIBRO 192 FOLIO 212 ALTA 11.
B) FINCA REGISTRAL 4243 TOMO 1233 LIBRO 47 FOLIO 97 ALTA 11.
C) FINCA REGISTRAL 4244 TOMO 1233 LIBRO 47 FOLIO 99 ALTA 11.
D) FINCA REGISTRAL 4245 TOMO 1233 LIBRO 47 FOLIO 101 ALTA 11.
...plus lots more
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Note added at 7 hrs (2014-09-18 06:40:34 GMT)
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@charles: I don't know about Julia's doc, but what you said about only seeing low-numbered ALTAs might reconcile the data above if they were batch-ids/posting-ids; where docs to be recorded are collected, batched and processed. In the data I found perhaps the notice to seize this owner's various properties was the 11th batch/posting done that day?
But if it's not a date, I'd go with an innocuous term like this if there's no other clue.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2014-09-18 05:45:29 GMT)
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@andy: I think there'd be more shame in jumping to the conclusion that el alta in this case is the same as el alta in any other cases you've translated in the past. You seem to have concluded that it means -registration-, although I'm not sure how, but what if it's tax roll ID or something else? So yeah, if it were me and I couldn't pinpoint exactly what this is, then I'd at least try a wording with the least harm, and if possible, tie it back to the original doc.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2014-09-18 06:03:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Again, what gives me pause is that the link I put above includes this data, where ALTA stays constant among all the properties mentioned. The common denominator seems to that there are several properties being seized from one owner. So what is ALTA here, where we have some data to examine? Since this data comes from an island, it's not far-fetched that all these may share a zone-number (for taxes or whatever). But that may be wrong too. My point is that if you cannot tell with certainty what ALTA is even with data to mull over, then how can you hope to arrive at a correct term in Julia's doc where there's no spec of data to examine???
A) FINCA REGISTRAL 4242 TOMO 1731 LIBRO 192 FOLIO 212 ALTA 11.
B) FINCA REGISTRAL 4243 TOMO 1233 LIBRO 47 FOLIO 97 ALTA 11.
C) FINCA REGISTRAL 4244 TOMO 1233 LIBRO 47 FOLIO 99 ALTA 11.
D) FINCA REGISTRAL 4245 TOMO 1233 LIBRO 47 FOLIO 101 ALTA 11.
...plus lots more
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2014-09-18 06:40:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@charles: I don't know about Julia's doc, but what you said about only seeing low-numbered ALTAs might reconcile the data above if they were batch-ids/posting-ids; where docs to be recorded are collected, batched and processed. In the data I found perhaps the notice to seize this owner's various properties was the 11th batch/posting done that day?
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Andy Watkinson
: "innocuous term" - i.e. I don't know what it means, so I'll use a "filler"?// " -> Ha!, yes that's essentially right." Don't think it's a good idea to admit as much on a translation venue. Each to his own...."As a last resort I'd use Alta No." Spanish?
1 hr
|
Ha!, yes that's essentially right. If it's a # (not a date) as seen in the example I found, then it references something, ergo: ref. no. Which, in the absence of evidence, causes less harm than using a concrete term. As a last resort I'd use "Alta no.".
|
+2
3 hrs
entry
You suggested this word in your discussion entry and I think it would be the most suitable translation.
The literal meaning of the word "alta" is "registration", as Andrés has said. This reference refers to the registration of the ownership of the property in the Property Register; specifically, the details of the escritura (deed) of the property are entered. The property is "dada de alta": registered.
The reference is designed, ultimately, to enable a registrar or other person to find the registration details in the Property Register records. So it tells you on which folio of which book of which volume it is it.
Within each folio, a series of properties are registered. Each of them is an "alta". They are numbered on each folio from 1 to however many fit on the folio. The number that appears after "Alta" tells you which of them it is, in sequence. So really, in practice, it means "entry (number)". The numerical sequence is completed: entry number X on folio number X of book number X of volume number X.
Maybe somewhere there's a property registrar's manual which explains explicitly that this is what "alta" means. It makes sense in principle, since it is obvious that more than one property will be registered on each folio and it is necessary to specify which it is. But it can also be deduced from the fact that if you browse examples of these references, you find that:
- The number after "alta" varies, but is always low; the highest I have seen is 15.
- Sometimes it is an ordinal: 2ª instead of 2, for example.
- Sometimes the word "inscripción" is used instead of "alta".
It is not a date or a tax code of any kind. "Registration" would be a correct translation of the word, but I think the clearest and most suitable translation here would be "entry".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2014-09-18 06:51:07 GMT)
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Here are a couple of references to show that I didn't make it all up. Firstly, the fact that "alta" here refers to an entry giving the details of the deed:
"1.4 La identidad de los titulares de la finca o propiedad
En la nota simple aparece el titular o titulares de la finca, o de los derechos sobre la misma. Opcionalmente puede aparecer el DNI de los titulares en el caso de que sean personas físicas, o el CIF si son empresas. En el caso de que existan varios titulares aparece el porcentaje correspondiente a cada uno de ellos. Además, para cada titular aparecen el Tomo, Libro, Folio, y Alta de las escrituras de compraventa correspondiente, la fecha en la que la compraventa tuvo lugar, y el nombre del notario autorizante ante el cual se otorgó la escritura."
http://www.datocapital.com/es/registro-propiedad/nota-simple...
Second, an example of a Nota Simple from León itself, in which the Alta number happens to be 3:
http://web.coal.es/ftp/descargas/dossier/leon/ARCHIVO_LEON/N...
Thirdly, an example with an ordinal:
"TITULARIDAD: 100% del pleno dominio con carácter ganancial. INSCRIPCIÓN: Tomo 853, Libro 41, Folio 63, Alta 2ª del Registro de la Propiedad nº 1 de Jerez de la Frontera."
http://legislacion.derecho.com/edicto-02-enero-2013-diputaci...
And lastly, an example with "inscripción", which seems to be used in the Basque Country:
"Inscripción Registral: Finca 130 de Deusto-A, en el tomo 1.590, libro 526, folio 197 del Registro de la Propiedad nº 1 de Bilbao, inscripción 19ª de fecha 02/12/2011."
https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.php?id=BOE-B-2014-22592
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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-09-18 06:59:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
One more point I've just noticed: if you look carefully at the example from León (where yours comes from), you'll see that there are two references to the property registration. One is headed "TITULARIDADES", and reads:
"TOMO 1055 LIBRO 3 FOLIO 105 ALTA 3"
and the second is under "CARGAS", and reads:
"Inscripción: 3ª Tomo: 1.055 Libro: 3 Folio: 105 Fecha: 31/08/1979"
The figures are the same; they are obviously referring to the same entry in the Property Register, and "Alta 3" in the first corresponds to "Inscripción 3ª" in the second. I conclude that they are synonymous.
The literal meaning of the word "alta" is "registration", as Andrés has said. This reference refers to the registration of the ownership of the property in the Property Register; specifically, the details of the escritura (deed) of the property are entered. The property is "dada de alta": registered.
The reference is designed, ultimately, to enable a registrar or other person to find the registration details in the Property Register records. So it tells you on which folio of which book of which volume it is it.
Within each folio, a series of properties are registered. Each of them is an "alta". They are numbered on each folio from 1 to however many fit on the folio. The number that appears after "Alta" tells you which of them it is, in sequence. So really, in practice, it means "entry (number)". The numerical sequence is completed: entry number X on folio number X of book number X of volume number X.
Maybe somewhere there's a property registrar's manual which explains explicitly that this is what "alta" means. It makes sense in principle, since it is obvious that more than one property will be registered on each folio and it is necessary to specify which it is. But it can also be deduced from the fact that if you browse examples of these references, you find that:
- The number after "alta" varies, but is always low; the highest I have seen is 15.
- Sometimes it is an ordinal: 2ª instead of 2, for example.
- Sometimes the word "inscripción" is used instead of "alta".
It is not a date or a tax code of any kind. "Registration" would be a correct translation of the word, but I think the clearest and most suitable translation here would be "entry".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2014-09-18 06:51:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here are a couple of references to show that I didn't make it all up. Firstly, the fact that "alta" here refers to an entry giving the details of the deed:
"1.4 La identidad de los titulares de la finca o propiedad
En la nota simple aparece el titular o titulares de la finca, o de los derechos sobre la misma. Opcionalmente puede aparecer el DNI de los titulares en el caso de que sean personas físicas, o el CIF si son empresas. En el caso de que existan varios titulares aparece el porcentaje correspondiente a cada uno de ellos. Además, para cada titular aparecen el Tomo, Libro, Folio, y Alta de las escrituras de compraventa correspondiente, la fecha en la que la compraventa tuvo lugar, y el nombre del notario autorizante ante el cual se otorgó la escritura."
http://www.datocapital.com/es/registro-propiedad/nota-simple...
Second, an example of a Nota Simple from León itself, in which the Alta number happens to be 3:
http://web.coal.es/ftp/descargas/dossier/leon/ARCHIVO_LEON/N...
Thirdly, an example with an ordinal:
"TITULARIDAD: 100% del pleno dominio con carácter ganancial. INSCRIPCIÓN: Tomo 853, Libro 41, Folio 63, Alta 2ª del Registro de la Propiedad nº 1 de Jerez de la Frontera."
http://legislacion.derecho.com/edicto-02-enero-2013-diputaci...
And lastly, an example with "inscripción", which seems to be used in the Basque Country:
"Inscripción Registral: Finca 130 de Deusto-A, en el tomo 1.590, libro 526, folio 197 del Registro de la Propiedad nº 1 de Bilbao, inscripción 19ª de fecha 02/12/2011."
https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.php?id=BOE-B-2014-22592
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2014-09-18 06:59:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
One more point I've just noticed: if you look carefully at the example from León (where yours comes from), you'll see that there are two references to the property registration. One is headed "TITULARIDADES", and reads:
"TOMO 1055 LIBRO 3 FOLIO 105 ALTA 3"
and the second is under "CARGAS", and reads:
"Inscripción: 3ª Tomo: 1.055 Libro: 3 Folio: 105 Fecha: 31/08/1979"
The figures are the same; they are obviously referring to the same entry in the Property Register, and "Alta 3" in the first corresponds to "Inscripción 3ª" in the second. I conclude that they are synonymous.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
lorenab23
: Sold!
17 mins
|
LOL! Thanks :-)
|
|
agree |
Michael torhan (X)
: I agree with Julia that yours is the most helpful!
3 hrs
|
Thank you very much, Michael, that's very gracious of you. I confess I can't explain your reference with number 11 in every case; either it's a strange coincidence or they entered a dummy number (or copied and pasted without correcting), I guess.
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Discussion
I still think it's more likely that the succession of number 11s in that document is an error, rather than indicating a completely different use of "Alta" from that used elsewhere in Spain, but it's anybody's guess, frankly. I find the concept you're outlining a bit strange, and it doesn't really fit the usual meaning(s) of "Alta" or the procedures of Spanish property registers, as I understand them. This is about recording the details of a property (specifically ownership) in the property register, and the source is a reference to that record. But I'm in the dark here, frankly, so I can't really comment usefully.
http://www.caib.es/eboibfront/es/2013/8089/509794/notificaci...