This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
épargne chirurgicale
pastille d'occlusion

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

clientèles, charges et offices

English translation:

clients, missions and (official) functions held

Added to glossary by Stephanie Mitchel
Jun 22, 2015 22:38
8 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

clientèles, charges et offices

French to English Bus/Financial Law: Taxation & Customs Disclosure of elected officials' assets
This is a form for reporting the assets of elected officials in France. The complete phrase is "Fonds de commerce ou clientèles, charges et offices." Thanks in advance.
Proposed translations (English)
4 clients, missions and (official) functions held
4 business customers/clientele, expenses and offices
3 Followers/supporters,expenditures and services

Discussion

Charlie Bavington Jun 23, 2015:
Nope All peace and love hereabouts too :-)
Stephanie Mitchel (asker) Jun 23, 2015:
Nikki... I don't mind a bit of a skirmish when it's instructive, and in this case it has been. Thanks again.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jun 23, 2015:
@Stephanie Don't worry. There's no problem for me, nor for Charlie either, as far as I can see. We were just exchanging our understandings of accessory but relevant matters surrounding your question. That's what the disucussion section is for. I've not got any boxing gloves stashed away and it doesn't look as though Charlie has either. Eh, Charlie? ;-)
Charlie Bavington Jun 23, 2015:
Identity Surely the fact a document is being translated is only significant if it is unique/identifiable. Either unique in and of itself (entirely original) or unique because, as you say, you know to whom it relates. If you're stuck on a Kbis extract, say, then yes, don't say who it's for, but you can tell us it's a Kbis without breaching confidentiality, and lots of Askers have Without telling us any more than that. This is just a déclaration de patrimoine, the web is full of them, and I don't see any reason why we we couldn't have been told, just as it's useful to know if an Asker is stuck on a Kbis, a Cerfa form, a planning application, or whatever, generically, without revealing the merest detail of the specific entity the generic form relates to.
Stephanie Mitchel (asker) Jun 23, 2015:
Didn't mean to stir up a fuss... ... glad I slept through it! ;) I do err on the side of paranoia because a good deal of my bread and butter now requires signing NDAs, but I also didn't factor in the need-to-know regarding public vs. private domain. I thank you all.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jun 23, 2015:
@Charlie Don't worry Charlie, no problem. Neither did I mean nor say by the way, that Stephanie should disclose any identity (of who the text is about). My point is that disclosing the fact that the documents is being translated at all can be significant. Establishing a link openly can sometimes lead to identification of others involved (our clients, third parties etc). That can also be sensitive in certain circumstances. I related one of my own experiences by way of illustration. I deliberately avoided specifics beyond suggesting that the content itself might be less significant than the fact that a doc is being translated.

I agree that it is often possible to track down the original source on the web. I do it myself often, as do others. I think the extra text is helpful. I suppose that if the Asker had not cited an online reference there was a reason for it. ;-)
Charlie Bavington Jun 23, 2015:
On disclosure I didn't say, still less mean, that the Asker needed to tell us *who* the document is about - far from it. I agree entirely with your opening remarks. I merely meant that the self-imposed restriction on providing more context about the document as a generic document was entirely unnecessary given that the template, as it were, is out there for all to see. See page 13 here for an exact copy of the little context we were given:
http://www.al1jup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Déclaration...

You will note that your comment about transparency was bang on, given the document title :-) Of course, it is *possible* the Asker's document is NOT one like this, but an answer based on the supposition it is would be entirely justified, I think.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jun 23, 2015:
@Charlie It is possible to be over-sensitive, but sometimes, the very fact that a document is being translated is sensitive in its own right. A number of years ago, I translated a number of hefty documents relating to a take-over bid. Originals were sent by courrier, doubled-up in the event of an accident. I had to practically sign secrecy vows in blood! When I saw the nature of the documents, I understood. Oh to be rich and unscrupulous. I could have done a major bit of insider dealing... it was clearly stated that I was not to divulge the fact that I was translating documents for the institution concerned as that of itself could have alerted interested parties to whole host of potentially exploitable information!
Charlie Bavington Jun 23, 2015:
Public domain I'm sure the specific document you have is sensitive, but it is possible to be excessively paranoid about the subject. Various copies of this document are easily viewable on google. One signed by Alain Juppé is the first hit I saw. I fail to see any valid reason whatsoever why a huge amount more context could not have been provided - the document title, the purpose of the thing, the relevant section heading ....
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jun 23, 2015:
Context I have quite a different take on this. See my suggested renderings.
Stephanie Mitchel (asker) Jun 22, 2015:
Context Hi, I can't add too much detail due to the sensitive nature of the publication, but I can give you the immediate context:
"...achats, ventes de biens immobiliers, d’entreprises, de fonds de commerce, de clientèles, de charges ou d’offices, emprunts contractés, successions reçues, libéralités reçues ou faites, partages suite à divorce,…"
Chakib Roula Jun 22, 2015:
Hello,
I do have an idea but more context will be highly helpful.
philgoddard Jun 22, 2015:
I think this is to do with income and expenditure from the sale and purchase of businesses - does it say "achat/vente de" before this? Alternatively, it could be the value of these businesses. Fonds de commerce is goodwill, and clientèles is customer bases, but I'm not sure about the rest.

Proposed translations

9 hrs
Selected

clients, missions and (official) functions held

1) Office.

I think it highly likely, particularly in view of the context described, that the term "office" here is conveying the meaning of "function". Elected officials often cumulate several functions, commercial, public or otherwise. Certain rules and regulations have to be complied with. Some functions cannot be held simultaneously, others can be but must be declared officially.

I think it is a mistake here to read "office" in the sense of "bureaux". It would simply not be the right word in French for that meaning in English. However, public office is also used in EN though, but as I say, this may not be referring to public functions alone.


http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/office/55726?q...

- Fonction, charge exercée par quelqu'un, tâche dont on doit s'acquitter : Remplir les plus humbles offices.

2) Charges.

Again, it is highly unlikely that "charges" has anything to do with expenses and everything to do with mission".

http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/charge/14743?q...

- Rôle, mission, choses ou personnes dont on a la responsabilité : C'est à vous que revient la charge de le prévenir.

- Toute fonction considérée sur le plan des responsabilités qui s'y attachent : Remplir les devoirs de sa charge.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2015-06-23 08:22:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Public figures are coming under icnreasing scrutiny in France. "Transparence" is all the rage, has been for quite a while and it is likely to continue that way. This is all about repsecting the rules and the spirit of the rules. The line is often ver fine indeed. Clever people play at having one foot either side of the line, in France, as everywhere else. Its about public accountability.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Nikki!"
44 mins

Followers/supporters,expenditures and services

Suggestion
Something went wrong...
47 mins

business customers/clientele, expenses and offices

my take

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 51 mins (2015-06-22 23:30:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

business customers = the ones French officials are getting money from on top of their salaries

expenses = the indicator of French officials' standard of living

offices = the various positions (cumul des mandats, as they say in French) that allow French officials to make more money
Peer comment(s):
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : We agree on the meaning of "offices" although we render it differently. Ditto "clientèles". However, we differ on the meaning of "charges" and thus also on rendering.
8 hrs
The accounts recording expenses by a company based in France are called 'comptes de CHARGES'
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search