May 14, 2017 10:18
7 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term
Germany
German to English Translator
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
faktische, geradezu gewohnheitsrechtliche Anerkennung
German to English
Law/Patents
Religion
archdioceses
My last question from the Archdiocese of Poznań essay, I promise!
This is about whether Poznań fell within the Archdiocese of Magdeburg's jurisdiction. The previous paragraph states that there is uncertainty within German and Polish academic circles as to whether Poznań belonged to Magdeburg's affiliation of metropolinates, casting doubt on the actual date of the Archdiocese of Poznań's founding.
In the following paragraph, I'm having particular trouble finding a suitable translation for "gewohnheitsrechtlich".
Dietrich Claude meinte, es habe eine faktische, geradezu „gewohnheitsrechtliche“ Anerkennung der Zugehörigkeit Posens gegeben, weil sich „Jordan und Unger … bei der Beschaffung von Büchern, liturgischen Gewändern und vielleicht auch zur Heranziehung von Priestern an den Erzbischof von Magdeburg gewandt haben“ dürften.
This is my attempt:
Dietrich Claude stated that there was de facto recognition of Poznań’s affiliation “by customary law”, since “Jordan and Unger must have appealed to the Archbishop of Magdeburg … to procure books, vestments and perhaps also to enlist priests”.
Thank you for your help!
This is about whether Poznań fell within the Archdiocese of Magdeburg's jurisdiction. The previous paragraph states that there is uncertainty within German and Polish academic circles as to whether Poznań belonged to Magdeburg's affiliation of metropolinates, casting doubt on the actual date of the Archdiocese of Poznań's founding.
In the following paragraph, I'm having particular trouble finding a suitable translation for "gewohnheitsrechtlich".
Dietrich Claude meinte, es habe eine faktische, geradezu „gewohnheitsrechtliche“ Anerkennung der Zugehörigkeit Posens gegeben, weil sich „Jordan und Unger … bei der Beschaffung von Büchern, liturgischen Gewändern und vielleicht auch zur Heranziehung von Priestern an den Erzbischof von Magdeburg gewandt haben“ dürften.
This is my attempt:
Dietrich Claude stated that there was de facto recognition of Poznań’s affiliation “by customary law”, since “Jordan and Unger must have appealed to the Archbishop of Magdeburg … to procure books, vestments and perhaps also to enlist priests”.
Thank you for your help!
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
17 hrs
Michael Martin, MA
United States
United States
Native in German
&
English
Works in field
United States
Creativity wins in the long run
Native in: German (Variant: Germany) 
, English (Variant: US)
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
20
Selected
de facto recognition closely resembling customary law
Dietrich Claude suggested that Posen enjoyed a de facto recognition of its affiliation closely resembling customary law
Note from asker:
| Yes, 'suggested' is certainly the best way to go about 'meinen'. Thank you, Michael. |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I opted for a solution based on several of the suggestions here. Thanks everyone!"
5 hrs
de facto and more so, acceptance by established practice
for "dürften" I'd say "most likely turned to"
23 hrs
Gordon Matthews
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Specializes in field
Germany
translator - copy-editor - proofreader
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK, US) 
Works in: German to English, French to English
de facto recognition according to customary law
Here, in this case, I understand "geradezu" to mean something like "indeed" or "exactly", so I think "according to" is preferable to "closely resembling".
"gewohnheitsrechtlich" could be translated in three ways: "according to consuetudinary law", "... common law", "... customary law". I would use "consuetudinary" only if the translated text is intended for an academic or legal readership. Your average church-goer or tourist won't know the word and probably won't be able to guess what it might mean. In a British, USA or British Commonwealth context I would use "common law". But we're dealing with Poland and Germany in this case, so I would be inclined to use "customary law" in order to make a distinction from common law as it applies in the UK, USA and in the British Commonwealth.
Sorry if these comments are getting too long, but one more point: "Dietrich Claude suggested ..." is better than "D..C...stated", because it needs to be clear that it is his opinion rather than established fact - as indicated by the use of the word "meinen" in the German text.
"gewohnheitsrechtlich" could be translated in three ways: "according to consuetudinary law", "... common law", "... customary law". I would use "consuetudinary" only if the translated text is intended for an academic or legal readership. Your average church-goer or tourist won't know the word and probably won't be able to guess what it might mean. In a British, USA or British Commonwealth context I would use "common law". But we're dealing with Poland and Germany in this case, so I would be inclined to use "customary law" in order to make a distinction from common law as it applies in the UK, USA and in the British Commonwealth.
Sorry if these comments are getting too long, but one more point: "Dietrich Claude suggested ..." is better than "D..C...stated", because it needs to be clear that it is his opinion rather than established fact - as indicated by the use of the word "meinen" in the German text.
Reference:
Note from asker:
| Thank you very much for your comments. The text is intended for an academic readership, so 'consuetudinary' is probably the best fit. Agreed on your point regarding 'suggested'. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Michael Martin, MA
: Thanks for picking up on my suggestion 'suggested'. However, I quite disagree with your notion that 'according to' is an accurate rendering of ‘geradezu’.
3 hrs
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See Oxford/Duden German-English dictionary re "geradezu": 1 Adv. A really; perfectly; (beinahe) almost: das ist geradezu lächerlich that is downright ridiculous; ein geradezu ideales Beispiel an absolutely perfect example; ...
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Discussion
Here's a good link discussing it:
https://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.com/2012/05/03/using-sinc...
Even Shakespeare used it and it's not wrong. However:
"The American Psychological Association’s stylebook, for instance, bans the reason-usage, and reports that this is the fifth most violated rule in their book. The Guardian also bans it, though the AP and Chicago Manuals don’t."
Always the same style guide problem...Don't ask me how long it took the Associated Press to accept "over" for numbers!
If present perfect + since are used in the same sentence, there may indeed be some ambiguity. An example from the link I quoted:
"In a second term, Carter might have moved the course of government toward the left, but since Reagan won the election the nation’s political movement has been toward the right."
-> since that point in time or because?
Lancashireman can tell me whether I'm wrong, but in the UK, the tendency is to omit commas (e.g., prepositional phrase at start of sentence), whereas Americans like to put them everywhere.
You put one there; some, however, may not.
Best
1) Agreed.
2) I must admit that I've never come across that. Thanks for the link. I really don't understand how people would get confused by the temporal vs causal use of 'since' though.
3) Understood.
4) Good solution - thank you.
All the best
1) No time change for reported speech? Maybe I'm too influenced by my work in journalism here (e.g., first one: was -> had been).
2) At least to my knowledge, a lot of people continue to object to the use of "since" in the case of causal relationships, whether justified or not (e.g., https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-a -> cf "as or since").
3) To do right by the German structure of having "dürfte" outside of the quotation marks, you'd need to do the same with the two names because of the typical SVO structure in English, i.e., you put the quotation marks after the name and possibly the auxiliary verb (if you have one).
4) Germans love to add "auch" to any sentence where they can get away with it. In your case, I think it should read "maybe even."
Best wishes
This might fit your the register of your text even better.
BTW I'm not sure that 'must have' is the best choice for 'haben dürften' > It is probable that / They may well have...
Go to bottom left-hand corner and click on 'English'
The direct link below doesn't seem to work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custom_(law)