Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
aucune présomption à dire
English translation:
it is in no way presumptuous to affirm that
French term
aucune présomption à dire
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors.
CONTEXT: Miroirs solaires. - Le modèle le plus ordinaire, on peut même dire de prédilection, du miroir égyptien est le solaire. Par là il faut entendre cette disposition oblongue qui n'est ni circulaire ni elliptique, mais qu'il n'est pas nécessaire d'être grand observateur, pour reconnaître comme l'aspect sous lequel se présente le soleil au-dessus de la ligne de l'horizon, soit qu'il y rentre, soit qu'il en sorte. [....] Quant à la raison qui paraît avoir déterminé les anciens Égyptiens à en faire choix, ***il n'y a aucune présomption à dire*** qu'elle n'est pas de celles qui nous échappent. On saisit facilement le rapport que l'esprit peut établir entre le soleil, source de lumière, foyer d'irradiations, et le miroir dont le pouvoir réfléchissant est doué des mêmes propriétés.
ATTEMPT: As to the reason that seems to have led the ancient Egyptians to choose this [+form=oblong configuration], we can say without being presumptuous that we know what it is.
ISSUE: I got some leads at WordRef but I wasn't satisfied with my translation, so I've reworked it. Am I on firm ground with this translation or am I off track?
Thanks in advance!
| 5 | it is in no way presumptuous to affirm that |
Daryo
|
Jul 31, 2017 23:03: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "ancient art" to "in a text on archaeology / ancient art"
Aug 4, 2017 08:04: Jennifer White changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
PRO (1): Daryo
Non-PRO (3): writeaway, Yvonne Gallagher, Jennifer White
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Proposed translations
it is in no way presumptuous to affirm that
elle= la raison qui paraît avoir déterminé les anciens Égyptiens à en faire choix
en = Le modèle le plus ordinaire, on peut même dire de prédilection, du miroir égyptien est le solaire
[starts looking like Russians dolls!]
it is in no way presumptuous to affirm ( / to say) that it (=the reason for making mirrors in the shape of the rising Sun) is not one of those that eludes us (or simply: is one easy to grasp)
IOW we are no being presumptuous when we say that it's easy to guess / understand why they used that shape a lot - it's really is that easy.
...
B. − Opinion très favorable que l'on a de ses propres facultés physiques ou intellectuelles; grande confiance en soi.
Synon. fatuité, outrecuidance, prétention, suffisance.
Je ne prétends pas avoir tout dit, tout prévu; je n'ai point la présomption de donner mon système comme le meilleur; je sais qu'il y a dans les affaires humaines quelque chose de mystérieux, d'insaisissable (Chateaubr., Mém., t.3, 1848, p.460):
2. N'empêche que la radio anglaise chante victoire un peu trop vite. Il y a là présomption imprudente et que les faits pourraient bien ne pas accompagner de si tôt. Cette jactance, si non suivie de victoire, ou si seulement celle-ci tarde trop, pourra paraître assez ridicule. Gide, Journal, 1943, p.193.
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/présomption
can't resist the pun: il n'y a aucune présomption à dire que ceci est de toute évidence la traduction correcte.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-07-31 20:23:37 GMT)
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I find this style of writing (denying being presumptuous while arguing with ghosts about the validity of your explanations) a bit strange for a museum catalogue - but that meaning of the whole of "avoir la présomption de" is the only one I can see as making sense for this ST.
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Note added at 1 day16 hrs (2017-08-02 10:50:09 GMT)
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or to make it sound nicer (after all, it's a museum catalogue, not some heated verbal duel):
it is not being overconfident to affirm that ...
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Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2017-08-02 10:57:28 GMT)
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il n'y a aucune présomption à dire qu'elle n'est pas de celles qui nous échappent.
=
We are not being overconfident when (/ It is not being overconfident ...) affirming that the reason for this choice is easy to grasp
Discussion
"il n'y a aucune présomption à dire" > "there is no presumption in saying..."
Note carefully that it is not '...de dire', which might take the meaning the way you are suggesting.
Despite Angela's interpretation and Phil's confirmation, I can't help thinking that it is more something like (simplified version)
We cannot make any further assumptions as to why the Ancient Egyptians made such a choice other than the following: We.....