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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

\"infantilización de la pobreza\"

English translation:

\"juvenilization of poverty\"

Added to glossary by Mónica Algazi
Oct 7, 2017 00:02
6 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term

\"infantilización de la pobreza\"

Spanish to English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc. Early childhood education and care policies throughout history
Context:

El fenómeno de la "infantilización de la pobreza" en el país ocupa el centro de las preocupaciones durante este período y motiva la generación de programas y de instituciones.

I feel "infantilization" does not convey the correct meaning in English. Any ideas? TIA!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 Juvenilization of Poverty
4 +3 rise in child poverty
4 +1 infantilization of poverty
4 -1 infantilization of the poor

Discussion

lorenab23 Oct 8, 2017:
I am with Charles This is not written for us and shouldn't be dumbed down. Great discussion, by the way!
Eileen Brophy Oct 7, 2017:
Juvenilization/Infantilization of poverty For me the term juvenilization or infantilization of poverty means making poverty younger, not increasing poverty in infants/children. It may be acceptable as a technical term in sociology, but it is very misleading, as many technical terms often are, so that none specialists do not understand what is being discussed.
Chema Nieto Castañón Oct 7, 2017:
Juvenilization of poverty From a strictly sociological perspective, there is no doubt about this one; infantilización de la pobreza & juvenilization of poverty are equivalent concepts, and both refer to trends in and risks of children loss of monetary support -and its social causes (genre, work, family structure, social structure, economic and social policies, etc.).

The differential preference of one over the other term in Spanish and English (infantilización vs. juvenización & juvenilization vs. infantilization) must be linked to language-related and semantic reasons, as juvenización is a rather odd word in Spanish -and not so its counterpart- while, as already mentioned here before, infantilization has particularly strong and unwanted connotations in English, that would make the expression infantilization of poverty too easily read as a process that turns or treats poverty as if infantile.

And by the way, thank you Charles Davis and all for a very interesting thread!
Charles Davis Oct 7, 2017:
(3) Frankly, "infantilization" seems to me the more suitable of the two, if we are talking about children. It should pertain to the 0-12 age band, whereas "juvenilization" should pertain to the 13-18 or perhaps 13-24 age band (more or less). But the fact is that whereas "infantilización de la pobreza" is much more common than "juvenilización de la pobreza" in Spanish, "juvenilization of poverty" is much more common than "infantilization of poverty" in English. For that reason, sheer familiarity and convention, I would go with "juvenilization".
Charles Davis Oct 7, 2017:
(2) That's not to say that I personally like the expressions "infantilization of poverty" or "juvenilization", but whether I or you like them or not is entirely beside the point; all that matters here is what the author would have put if he/she had good enough English to have written the text in English, which is the service we are providing.

I would put juvenilization simply because it is a well-established term with a well-established meaning and an extensive literature behind it, which will be familiar to readers and which the author, I believe, intends to invoke. "Infantilization" is also used, even outside research literature. The nutritionist Dr. Jean Mayer, President of Tufts University, uses it in the New York Times:

"''Now,'' Dr. Mayer said, ''the elderly have a lot of clout, and the poverty is among women and young children. Senator Moynihan called it the feminization of poverty. I call it the infantilization of poverty.''
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/29/garden/eating-well.html
Charles Davis Oct 7, 2017:
@Mónica Is this another research article (or the same one)? If so, I don't recommend putting "The steady rise in child poverty, a phenomenon known as 'juvenilization of poverty'". The intended readers are sociologists, all of whom already know what "juvenilization of poverty" means and will find it strange that one of their peers thinks they need an explanation. They will quite probably be offended by the implication. This is the trouble; there seems to be an assumption here that this should be written like a newspaper article, making it easy for general readers, but this is not written for us; we are eavesdropping on a professional conversation.

I would use "juvenilization", though not because it avoids the ambiguity of "infantilization". Of course "infantilization" has another meaning, but then so does "juvenilization": the juvenilization of society can mean older people adopting younger people's habits and attitudes: society becoming more juvenile. But you obviously can't make poverty itself more infantile or juvenile; in practice there is no ambiguity at all with either word.
Eileen Brophy Oct 7, 2017:
@Mónica Algazi I will survive without the points, if you prefer that answer.
Mónica Algazi (asker) Oct 7, 2017:
How about this "solución saloMónica"? The steady rise in child poverty, a phenomenon known as "juvenilization of poverty", ...
The trouble is, how shall I split the points?
Eileen Brophy Oct 7, 2017:
We could also say it is a phenomenon of a rise in child poverty or a rise in child poverty phenomenon.
Eileen Brophy Oct 7, 2017:
Infantilization in is not a very clear term in English and the English press use a different term, as I posted above, I do not know how many people will understand the real significance of "Infantilization" if they are native English readers with no knowledge of foreign language terminology, because after all it is a literal translation, albeit of common use in Spanish as Beatriz says.
Gabriela Alvarez Oct 7, 2017:
@ Neil Although Eileen's option seems a good one, we shouldn't forget that "fenómeno" is mentioned before, which means that "infantilización" is a specific term.
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro Oct 7, 2017:
Infantilización is not jargon in Spanish, but a normal term; the translation should be kept normal. On the other hand it is perfectly ambiguous and cannot be interpreted outside context.
Muriel Vasconcellos Oct 7, 2017:
@ Neil Different genres have their traditions. The writing styles have meaning to the people who use them. It's not the translator's job to dumb down everything to a journalistic style. We're supposed to reflect the tone and style of the original.
neilmac Oct 7, 2017:
More faux intellectualization ... of the type with which Sociology is rife. To me, all that "-ization" stuff just results in an unappealing mish-mash of jargonistic waffle. Just my opinion.
Muriel Vasconcellos Oct 7, 2017:
Use of '-ization' The '-ization' suffix conveys important meaning. It emphasizes that it's a 'process', and for that reason I continue to favor 'juvenilization'. I also hadn't noticed, until Robin pointed it out, that a 'rise in child poverty' is ambiguous. It could mean an increase in the number children or a rise in the level of poverty in children.
Eileen Brophy Oct 7, 2017:
@Ormiston Exactly what I meant thanks for the link
ormiston Oct 7, 2017:
post these natural suggestions https://www.google.fr/url?q=https://www.theguardian.com/soci...
Eileen Brophy Oct 7, 2017:
If it means a rise in poverty among children, can't it simply be "a rise in child poverty?"
Muriel Vasconcellos Oct 7, 2017:
'Infantilization' is ambiguous See the following meanings from my desktop version of Merriam-Webster International:

Main Entry:in£fan£ti£lize
Pronunciation:*inf*nt*l**z sometimes in*fant*l-
Function:transitive verb
Inflected Form:-ed/-ing/-s ; -s

1 : to make or keep infantile
2 : to treat as if infantile
–in-fan-ti-li-za-tion *infant*l**z*sh*n, -*l***z- sometimes in*fant*l- noun
[Symbols not displaying properly for some reason - MV]

Proposed translations

+6
3 hrs
Selected

Juvenilization of Poverty

Hola, Mónica: encontré que se habla de "Juvenilization of Poverty". Creo que es el término que encaja en este contexto.


Juvenilization of Poverty

The 'juvenilization of poverty' is closely linked to the feminization of poverty The terms juvenilization and feminization have been highly contested. The term 'Juvenilization of poverty' is used to describe child poverty and the increase in both relative and absolute measures of poverty among children.

The processes by which children are at a higher risk for being poor, suffer long-term negative effects due to physical, mental, and psychological deprivation. Juvenilization of poverty is the ways in which children are disenfranchised by institutions, government welfare spending, and opportunities for health and wellness. Research connects the juvenilization of poverty to trends in family structures and economic supports for children and families.

http://sociologyindex.com/juvenilization_of_poverty.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2017-10-07 03:41:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=BXxogvlQKLcC&pg=PA181&l...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2017-10-07 03:45:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.jstor.org/stable/223507?seq=1#page_scan_tab_cont...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2017-10-07 03:46:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In addition, although more children became poor, social services provision did not increase and in many instances was cut back. The juvenilization of poverty requires social workers to place themselves in advocacy roles and to focus on poverty as a central practice concern.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1925706
Note from asker:
Muchas gracias, Gabriela. Sigo dándole vueltas a este punto...
Peer comment(s):
agree Muriel Vasconcellos : I like this better than "infantalization," which has the other meaning picked up in Barbara's answer. This is less ambiguous.
3 hrs
Thank you, Muriel! :D
agree Alex Ossa : Given Monica's clarification, this looks like the right way to go about it
3 hrs
Thanks, Alex! ;)
neutral neilmac : "The terms juvenilization and feminization have been highly contested" [sic]
5 hrs
We don't have enough context. “Infantilización” is a specific term, which should be kept in the translation. I think it’s a good option unless you have a better solution. Thank you for your feedback anyway!
agree Marcelo González : Good references. And I agree with Muriel and Alex.
6 hrs
Thank you, Marcelo! :)
agree Jennifer Levey : Yes. More and/or younger kids are becoming poor.
8 hrs
Thank you, Robin! :)
agree Charles Davis
16 hrs
Thank you, Charles! :)
agree Chema Nieto Castañón : Definitely!
19 hrs
Thank you, Saltasebes! :D
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Enlightening brainstorm. Thank you all!"
+1
4 mins

infantilization of poverty

To infantilize someone means to treat them like a child.
Reference:

http://www.google.com/search?q="infantilization+of+poverty"&oq="infantilization+of+poverty"&aqs=chrome..69i57j0&sourceid=silk&ie=UTF-8

Note from asker:
Thank you, Phil.
Peer comment(s):
agree Rachel Fell : http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/L/bo3684193...
27 mins
neutral Marcelo González : I agree with Muriel. Mónica's clarification, as well as both your and Barbara's (along with my now-deleted and similarly errant) interpretation, would appear to underscore Muriel's point rather convincingly, hence the change in my agree to neutral.
2 hrs
agree Marie Wilson
6 hrs
neutral Muriel Vasconcellos : 'Infantalization' has another meaning as well (see Barbara's answer, which misinterpreted the intention of the expression). To avoid ambiguity, 'juvanilization' would be better.
6 hrs
disagree Barbara Cochran, MFA : You can't "infantalize" a socio-economic construct. Only people./There are a lot of people, more than just thousands, out there on the Internet who don't have much of a clue about different things, e.g., phony "journalists", and academic frauds.
21 hrs
You'd better tell that to the thousands of people who have used the phrase online.
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

infantilization of the poor

Poor people often become dependent on government programs and agencies.
Note from asker:
What they mean in Spanish is that the poor in this country are increasingly younger, that is, more and more children tend to be poor. Thank you, Barbara.
Peer comment(s):
disagree philgoddard : This is the same as my answer. Since mine is wrong, yours must be too.
22 hrs
It is not the same. See my comments on my "disagree", in response to your entry.
Something went wrong...
+3
7 hrs

rise in child poverty

This is what is being mentioned in the English media
Note from asker:
This is exactly the idea. Thank you, Eileen!
Peer comment(s):
agree neilmac : This is how I understand it. A rise in poverty affecting kids.
1 hr
Thank you Neil
agree Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
3 hrs
Thanks Beatriz
agree ormiston : this is natural English
3 hrs
That is what I think too and also clear, not like other terminology, which would not be understood by native English speakers.
neutral Jennifer Levey : Very ambiguous. Does "rise in child poverty" mean "increase in the number of poor children", or "increase in the level of poverty of poor children"? The ST is clear, this translation is not.
4 hrs
I think it clearly means an increase in the number of poor children Robin. But it depends on the reader....
Something went wrong...
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