Feb 20, 2018 14:18
6 yrs ago
6 viewers *
English term

personnel

English to French Law/Patents Human Resources Propriété intellectuelle
« [any claim arising out of] Contractor’s or any of Contractor’s **employees**, personnel, agents or subcontractors breach of the representations, warranties, covenants, obligations under this Agreement »

Employés et personnel dans la même phrase, ça me chiffonne parce que les employés sont censés faire partie du personnel et je serais surpris qu'il s'agisse de qchose comme « les employés et autres membres du personnel »

C'est toujours un peu délicat de dire à son client de revoir sa copie et je voudrais donc vérifier auprès de vous que je ne suis pas en train de passer à côté de qchose.

Merci !
Proposed translations (French)
2 +2 collaborateurs

Discussion

ph-b (X) (asker) Feb 23, 2018:
Pour info... J'ai proposé « l'un quelconque des membres du personnel » pour employees et personnel et cela a été accepté par le client. Merci à tous.
surbeg Feb 21, 2018:
Ici employees a le sens restreint de salariés (cf. Termium)
...ses salariés, collaborateurs, agents...
Sofia_Qc Feb 20, 2018:
Dans Termium, l'effectif s'entend généralement du total du personnel d'une entreprise ou d'un organisme, alors que le mot «personnel» peut être aussi utilisé pour désigner une catégorie ou sous-catégorie de membres du personnel, par exemple le personnel cadre. C'est pourquoi on parle parfois des personnels de l'entreprise ou de l'organisme.

Proposed translations

+2
11 mins
Selected

collaborateurs

I think the distinction being made here is between 'personnel' = '(full-time) permanent staff' of the company — who may be assigned temporraily to this or that project — and any other form of people being 'employed' by the company in the specific context of this project — for example, temp. staff or people called in on short-term contracts; they are still literally 'employees' (= paid directly by), but they would not count as 'permanent staff' (sort of a bit like 'titulaires', I suppose)
Peer comment(s):

agree Chakib Roula : Dear Tony, we can then talk about "intérimaires" ??
49 mins
Shukrane, Chakib! Sadly, I don't think so, as that would amount to over-interpretation.
neutral Daryo : "collaborateurs" doesn't sound like a legal category / legal form comparable to employed / self-employed etc ...
1 hr
Thnaks, Daryo! I believe it is — I certainly encounter it often nough in para-legal texts.
agree surbeg
18 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Merci."

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Don’t Use “Personnel” in Contracts

Don’t Use “Personnel” in Contracts
Posted on May 16, 2016 by Ken Adams

Recently I encountered the word personnel in a contract. Hmm, how does personnel relate to employees? I asked my usual employment-law resources and they replied that personnel and employees mean the same thing, although personnel is perhaps the fancier option.

But in my world, which I suspect is a narrower, more cramped, darker world than theirs, the sensible meaning attributed to words isn’t what matters. Instead, the question is how people use those words, and whether that holds the potential for a fight.

So of course, off to EDGAR I went. Here are two examples in which personnel is defined to include not just employees:

“Personnel” means the Affiliates, officers, directors, employees, agents, contractors, consultants, vendors, invitees and representatives of a party to the Agreement and of the party’s Affiliates.

For purposes of this Non-Competition Agreement, “Covered Party Personnel” means and includes any person or entity who is an employee, consultant or independent contractor of the Company on the date hereof …

Here’s an example of personnel defined in a way that would seem to refer to more than employees:

In the event that others are, or may hereafter become, associated with Consultant or are used by Consultant in connection with the Consulting Services (“Consultant Personnel”), Consultant agrees to …

And in this example, personnel includes one or more companies and, presumably, the personnel of those companies:

During the Term, MWLS shall provide, or cause to be provided, a sufficient number of suitably qualified and experienced personnel (which may consist of employees, contractors or other Third Parties) as is required to perform the Services; …

For what it’s worth, that broader definition isn’t necessarily at odds with dictionary definitions. For example, Black’s Law Dictionary gives as a definition of personnel, “Collectively, the people who work in a company, organization, or military force.” I can work in a company without being an employee.

And this is from a company policy statement: “It is the policy of Price Group and its affiliates to forbid any of their officers, directors, employees, or other personnel (e.g., consultants) while in possession of material, non-public information …”

If some contracts define personnel to mean more than employees, it’s conceivable that in other contracts drafters use personnel to convey that broader meaning but without using it as a defined term. That means you have the potential for a fight over the meaning of personnel.

I haven’t found an example of a fight over the meaning of personnel in the context of a company. But I did find, for a example, a fight over whether a court-appointed receiver qualifies as court personnel (the court said the receiver did). So I can readily imagine people getting into a fight over the meaning of personnel in a commercial context.

And personnel has another strike against it—it’s a plural noun with no singular form, and there is, moreover, no other singular noun applying to an individual member of the set it denotes.

So I recommend that if you mean employees, use employees. If you mean something broader than employees, be explicit about it—don’t use personnel.

...
http://www.adamsdrafting.com/dont-use-personnel-in-contracts...
Note from asker:
Merci.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Tony M
5 mins
Thanks!
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