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Popping a valve
Model article(s)
Nov 4, 2018 10:33
5 yrs ago
8 viewers *
English term

deposed

English to French Law/Patents Law (general) Legal expertise
All experts may be deposed but such depositions must occur within the time limit for all depositions set forth below.

I first understood "deposed" as "révoqué", but it is actually the following meaning in this sentence:
testify to or give (evidence) on oath, typically in a written statement.
"every affidavit shall state which of the facts deposed to are within the deponent's knowledge"
synonyms: swear, testify, attest, assert, declare, claim
"a witness deposed that he had seen me"


What is throwing me off is the passive voice. I understand "déposer", but not relating to an expert (an expertise, yes!)

Can anyone help me?

Kind regards,
Cécile
Proposed translations (French)
4 +2 les faits exposés
4 +1 l'interrogatoire formel des témoins-experts de la partie opposée
4 tous les experts peuvent être entendus
3 +1 Des témoignages formelles peut être recueillies des experts

Discussion

Cécile Gaultier (asker) Nov 5, 2018:
Thank you everyone for your valuable help. :)
Germaine Nov 5, 2018:
Cécile, Juriterm donne à "deposition (out of court)" la traduction "déposition" et à "deposition of a witness", la traduction "témoignage". Cf. http://www.juriterm.ca/

Selon le juridictionnaire, "Le témoignage que fournit un témoin au procès est oral quand il est rendu de vive voix, par opposition au témoignage écrit, lequel est rendu au moyen d’un affidavit (ou d’une déclaration sous serment en régime civiliste) ou par voie de déposition." Quant à l’aspect "écrit" de la déposition, notons cette phrase: "Il y a absence de concordance entre son témoignage et sa déposition."

On trouve dans le juridictionnaire les mentions "Déposition, preuve, témoignage par affidavit", "Établir, faire, signer, souscrire un affidavit", "Présenter un affidavit" (cf. fiche "affidavit"). "...la fausse déposition, le faux affidavit... et le faux rapport d’expert sont des exemples de faux produits en justice."
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/juridi-srch?lang=eng&srchtx...
ph-b (X) Nov 4, 2018:
:-) if I'm reading "entendu" too narrowly, pls let me know... I've been looking without success for a good translation of deposition C'est p.-ê. que la réponse déjà donnée est satisfaisante ?
Eliza Hall Nov 4, 2018:
Suggestions I've been looking without success for a good translation of deposition. There doesn't appear to be any such process in French litigation, hence the difficulty of translating it.

What the sentence means is: "All experts may be formally questioned before trial, under oath, by opposing counsel, but such depositions must occur within the time limit set forth below..." Perhaps you could translate that, i.e. provide an explanatory translation rather than a direct one, since depositions don't seem to exist in France.

The "time limit for all depositions" is mentioned because in US litigation, there is often a later deadline for expert depositions than for the depositions of fact witnesses (i.e. nonexperts, people personally familiar with the relevant facts e.g. eyewitnesses). The court sets the schedule for pretrial practice, or adopts a schedule agreed to by the lawyers for the parties, and very often "expert discovery" (submitting written reports by experts and deposing the experts) has its own schedule that's later than "fact discovery" (all other depositions and examinations of documents).

The passive voice is common in US legalese. Not pretty, but common :)
ph-b (X) Nov 4, 2018:
Eliza, Merci pour la précision, mais mon commentaire tentait de répondre à la q de grammaire posée par Cécile. La réponse de FX est satisfaisante : elle répond à la question posée (deposed > « entendus », sans préciser par qui, l'ex. n'étant qu'un ex.).
Cécile Gaultier (asker) Nov 4, 2018:
This is indeed a US court.
And here is the rest of the paragraph. But if "entendu" is not accurate, then what term should be used to translate "deposed" and "deposition"?

Depositions. All depositions (including any expert depositions, see item 3 above) must be completed by november 30. Unless counsel agree otherwise or the Court so orders,
depositions shall not commence until all parties have completed the initial disclosures required by
Fed. R. Civ. P. 26(a)(l) or until four weeks from the date of this Order, whichever is earlier.
Eliza Hall Nov 4, 2018:
PPS: the French word "déposition" is a faux ami In French, déposition typically means a witness statement made to investigators, reduced to writing (e.g. the police officer to whom a witness gives a deposition will write down the key points of what the witness said), and then signed by the witness.

That's not AT ALL the same thing as a deposition under US litigation (which appears to be what Cécile's text comes from).
Eliza Hall Nov 4, 2018:
PS: depositions are almost always oral not written Cécile, I just saw your reference to "typically in a written statement." That sounds like an affidavit (as mentioned later in your original post), but not a deposition. A deposition is virtually always oral.

The only time I've ever seen written depositions used is in trademark cases being decided by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board (TTAB). I've never seen them used in any other kind of case, nor before an actual court (the TTAB is an administrative tribunal, not a court).

Although depositions are oral, there is a written record of the deposition, prepared by the stenographer: the "deposition transcript." It's not a summary but a word-for-word transcript of what each participant said: every question asked by the lawyer taking the deposition, every objection from the opposing lawyer, every word the witness said, every time the stenographer asked for clarification (e.g. "Could you spell that"). The transcript can be anywhere from a few pages to hundreds of pages long, since depositions can take anywhere from an hour to 2-3 days.

Occasionally, excerpts from a videotaped deposition may be used at trial (e.g. if the witness died or is unavailable during trial).
Eliza Hall Nov 4, 2018:
Deposed does not mean before/by the Court A deposition doesn't happen before the Court/tribunal/judge. For that reason, I don't think "peuvent être entendus" is the right translation. If I'm reading "entendu" too narrowly, and it doesn't necessarily mean "entendu par le tribunal," please correct me.

Here's what it means: in litigation, sometimes expert witnesses are required. In the US (and I believe UK), unlike in France, the experts are hired by and for the parties, not by the court. They're not independent; they're paid by the parties.

All witnesses, including experts, may be deposed. Depositions happen BEFORE TRIAL and not in the presence of the judge. In a deposition, the witness is questioned, under oath, by opposing counsel.

The only people normally present at a deposition are: (1) the witness; (2) one or more lawyers for the party whose witness it is (e.g., if it's the plaintiff's expert, then this means the plaintiff's lawyers), who are said to "defend the deposition," i.e. protect the witness from unfair questions etc.; (3) one or more lawyers for the other party or parties (who are said to "take the deposition"); and (4) the stenographer (and/or videographer, if the deposition is videotaped).
ph-b (X) Nov 4, 2018:
« prendre une déposition » Bien qu'on l'entende ou qu'on la lise fréquemment, l'expression « prendre une déposition » ne s'utilise pas officiellement, mais elle peut vous aider à comprendre comment to depose s/o est employé ici à la voix passive. Cf. aussi the judge hears an expert > an expert is heard by the judge. Cf. la réponse de FX Fraipont. Pour le fun, voir ici (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2cJgU7X5WQ) comment Trump avait déjà été « déposé »... avant d'être élu président (!)

Proposed translations

+2
8 hrs
English term (edited): the facts deposed to
Selected

les faits exposés

From the text given. we don't know whether the affidavit is for use in contested proceedings. Affidavits can also be used to submit evidence which is agrred. I therefore think my "neutral" suggestion is best here.

[...] périodes que celle de décembre 1997 à mars 2001, pour laquelle Comap
ne conteste pas les faits exposés par la Commission.
eur-lex.europa.eu

[...] between December 1997 and March 2001, in relation to which Comap does
not challenge the facts set out by the Commission.
eur-lex.europa.eu
Les faits exposés au cours de l'audience sont relativement simples et n'ont essentiellement pas été contestés.
fstontario.ca

The facts in this hearing were relatively straightforward and were largely not contested.
fstontario.ca
Peer comment(s):
agree Eliza Hall : This is correct for the "facts deposed" in the affidavit, but NOT for the "experts may be deposed" part of Cécile's question. Same English word, two different French translations.
2 hrs
Thank you, and yes that's the part that I am helping with
agree B D Finch
20 hrs
Thank you
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
48 mins

tous les experts peuvent être entendus

"Contentieux européen (2 volumes) - Page 86 - Google Books Result
https://books.google.be/books?isbn=2804467848
Melchior Wathelet - 2014 - ‎Law
Article 24 La Cour de justice peut demander aux parties de produire tous documents et ... Article 28 Les témoins et experts peuvent être entendus sous la foi du ..."
Peer comment(s):
agree Daryo
38 mins
agree ph-b (X) : C'est le sens de la question posée : deposed = « entendus » pour tenir compte de la syntaxe source, mais sans préciser par qui ni où.
3 hrs
disagree Eliza Hall : "Entendu" here seems to mean entendu par le Tribunal. That's not what deposed means. See discussion (but if I'm reading "entendu" too narrowly, pls let me know).
4 hrs
disagree AllegroTrans : Agree with Eliza
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
6 hrs

l'interrogatoire formel des témoins-experts de la partie opposée

Two options:

Les avocats de chaque partie en litige peuvent procéder à l'interrogatoire formel des témoins-experts de la partie opposée, sans exception aucune, mais ces dépositions des témoins-experts doivent obligatoirement conclure au plus tard... (bla bla bla)

Les avocats de chaque partie en litige peuvent effectuer les interrogatoires formels des témoins-experts de la partie opposée, sans exception aucune, mais... (bla bla bla).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2018-11-04 17:08:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PS: I used the term "ces dépositions" after the initial explanatory translation for two reasons: (1) brevity and (2) to make it 100% clear that what we're talking about in this sentence is what's referred to as "depositions" in the original text. You could also say "ces interrogatoires" or something like that.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2018-11-04 18:24:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PPS: to expand on what I said to Ph-b below (since the space below is too short for a good explanation), depositions are absolutely an investigative process -- and a very hostile process -- for which the word "interrogatoire" is justified.

Judges/magistrates in the US do not have any investigative role. They don't do enquêtes; that is the job of the lawyers. A deposition is an investigative tool used to uncover evidence to be used against your opponent at trial, and to understand what evidence they have on their side, so that you can strategize how to respond to their evidence. You might do ten depositions and then, depending on what you discover in the depositions, only call three of those witnesses at trial.

It is a purposely difficult and hostile process, designed to be very challenging for the witness: to destabilize her, to discredit her, to ferret out every secret she is trying to keep, and to discover all the inconsistencies and veiled truths that you (the attorney taking the deposition) can possibly discover. With experts, you're also trying to find every possible way to make them look stupid, arrogant, unqualified or just wrong.

That's why I used the word "interrogatoire."
Peer comment(s):
neutral ph-b (X) : « interrogatoire », c'est ce que font les forces de l'ordre au cours d'une enquête et les magistrats dans un tribunal. Ça ne semble pas correspondre à la définition que vs avez donnée dans la discussion.
29 mins
A deposition is an investigative tool. In US civil litigation, the parties' lawyers conduct the investigation/enquête--not the magistrates/judges, not the police. The interrogatoires are done by the parties' lawyers.
agree GILLES MEUNIER
12 hrs
Merci!
Something went wrong...
+1
12 hrs
English term (edited): All experts may be deposed

Des témoignages formelles peut être recueillies des experts

My attempt
Might need tidying up by a Fr native speaker but I think it gets rid of the very awkard use of "deposed" which make me think of corrupt monarchs...
Peer comment(s):
agree B D Finch : The corrupt monarchs aren't necessarily the ones that get deposed.
16 hrs
True! but experts being "deposed" somehow grates (maybe it's acceptable to our US colleagues though)
neutral Eliza Hall : Not sure this works because to my mind a "témoignage formel" (masculine) is much broader: could be before the judge, in court with the jury, wherever; could happen before or during trial. A deposition is much narrower (pre-trial, no judge or jury present)
16 hrs
OK but I think "peuvent être recueillies des experts" is the way around the awkward En phrasing, don't you?
Something went wrong...
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