Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
Con un menino del padre
English translation:
By a servant of the pimp
Added to glossary by
Lydia De Jorge
Jun 30, 2019 00:56
4 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term
United States
Don't just say it, say it right!
Native in: Spanish 
, English
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
Con un menino del padre
Spanish to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
poesía barroca española -JÁCARA DE LA MÉNDEZ
Reply from La Méndez (prostitute) to a letter received from Escarramán (her lover/pimp) from jail. He is asking for 'contributions'. She is in a hospital with syphilis and can't help.
*Con un menino del padre,*
(tu mandil y mi avantal),
de la cámara del golpe,
pues que su llave la trae,
recibí en letra los ciento,
que recibiste, jayán,
de contado, que se vían
uno al otro al asentar.
http://www.poesia-inter.net/fq48094.htm
*Con un menino del padre,*
(tu mandil y mi avantal),
de la cámara del golpe,
pues que su llave la trae,
recibí en letra los ciento,
que recibiste, jayán,
de contado, que se vían
uno al otro al asentar.
http://www.poesia-inter.net/fq48094.htm
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +4 | By a servant of the pimp |
Charles Davis
|
| 3 | (AmE) Conveyed by a little urchin/ (BrE) whippersnapper/ from Big Mack Daddy |
Adrian MM.
|
References
| A courtier? |
Cecilia Gowar
|
Proposed translations
+4
3 hrs
Selected
By a servant of the pimp
This, as I'm sure you know, is La Méndez's reply to Escarramán's letter to her, recounting his arrest while drunk and the hundred lashes he received. So the first lines basically mean "I received your letter".
"Con un menino del Padre [...] recibí en letra los ciento, que recibiste" means that "un menino del Padre" brought me your letter with your account of your hundred lashes.
"Menino" meant a very young page at court in the service of a child of the royal family. As John Stevens (1706) defines it:
"Menino, a very little page at court; so called, because they are meer children, kept there only for their education and for grandeur. There are bigger pages, whom they call pages."
The word is best known from Velázquez's very famous painting Las Meninas, showing the Infanta Margarita Teresa with her "meninas".
"El padre" means "padre de mancebía", i.e., pimp. It's defined in the "Vocabulario de germanía" (glossary of underworld slang) which Juan Hidalgo included in his Romances de germanía de varios autores (Madrid, 1779), in which he reproduces this very poem ("padre" could also mean a cloak, but not here):
"Padre, Padre de mancebía" (foot of p. 185)
https://books.google.es/books?id=oZoKAAAAQAAJ&dq=juan hidalg...
"Al encargado de regir una mancebía se le conocía como « Padre Putas» o «Padre de la Mancebía»"
https://educalingo.com/en/dic-es/mancebia
See Elena di Pinto, "El peso de la tradición escarramanesca: un «mínimo» soneto escarramanado", p. 66, n. 6 (you may find this article useful):
"«Con un menino del padre, | tu mandil y mi avantal | de la cámara del golpe, | pues que su llave la trae». «Menino» es, en germanía, el criado del padre de la mancebía. Esta voz está registrada en el Vocabulario de Juan Hidalgo; «mandil» es el criado de rufián o de mujer pública (en este caso es el criado de Escarramán); «avantal», «delantal, mandil». O sea, metafóricamente, de nuevo «criado de una marca», el criado de la Méndez. La Méndez hace una metáfora por la que el sinónimo –sensu stricto– de «mandil» («avantal») se convierte también en sinónimo –sensu lato–. «Cámara de golpe» es el prostíbulo."
http://repositoriodigital-la-semyr.es/index.php/rd-ls/catalo...
So she knew that the pimp's servant who brought the letter came from the brothel (cámara de golpe) because he had the key to it.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2019-06-30 04:06:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I didn't say, but I'm sure it's obvious, that applying the word "menino", with its royal associations, to the servant of a pimp is a typical germanía joke usage.
"Con un menino del Padre [...] recibí en letra los ciento, que recibiste" means that "un menino del Padre" brought me your letter with your account of your hundred lashes.
"Menino" meant a very young page at court in the service of a child of the royal family. As John Stevens (1706) defines it:
"Menino, a very little page at court; so called, because they are meer children, kept there only for their education and for grandeur. There are bigger pages, whom they call pages."
The word is best known from Velázquez's very famous painting Las Meninas, showing the Infanta Margarita Teresa with her "meninas".
"El padre" means "padre de mancebía", i.e., pimp. It's defined in the "Vocabulario de germanía" (glossary of underworld slang) which Juan Hidalgo included in his Romances de germanía de varios autores (Madrid, 1779), in which he reproduces this very poem ("padre" could also mean a cloak, but not here):
"Padre, Padre de mancebía" (foot of p. 185)
https://books.google.es/books?id=oZoKAAAAQAAJ&dq=juan hidalg...
"Al encargado de regir una mancebía se le conocía como « Padre Putas» o «Padre de la Mancebía»"
https://educalingo.com/en/dic-es/mancebia
See Elena di Pinto, "El peso de la tradición escarramanesca: un «mínimo» soneto escarramanado", p. 66, n. 6 (you may find this article useful):
"«Con un menino del padre, | tu mandil y mi avantal | de la cámara del golpe, | pues que su llave la trae». «Menino» es, en germanía, el criado del padre de la mancebía. Esta voz está registrada en el Vocabulario de Juan Hidalgo; «mandil» es el criado de rufián o de mujer pública (en este caso es el criado de Escarramán); «avantal», «delantal, mandil». O sea, metafóricamente, de nuevo «criado de una marca», el criado de la Méndez. La Méndez hace una metáfora por la que el sinónimo –sensu stricto– de «mandil» («avantal») se convierte también en sinónimo –sensu lato–. «Cámara de golpe» es el prostíbulo."
http://repositoriodigital-la-semyr.es/index.php/rd-ls/catalo...
So she knew that the pimp's servant who brought the letter came from the brothel (cámara de golpe) because he had the key to it.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2019-06-30 04:06:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I didn't say, but I'm sure it's obvious, that applying the word "menino", with its royal associations, to the servant of a pimp is a typical germanía joke usage.
Note from asker:
| It's a whole new language! Fascinating and so confusing. Thank you once more! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
neilmac
: ¡Chapó!
4 hrs
|
|
Cheers, Neil ;-)
|
|
| agree |
Cecilia Gowar
5 hrs
|
|
Many thanks, Cecilia :-)
|
|
| agree |
JohnMcDove
: Sí, señor. :-)
16 hrs
|
|
Muichas gracias, John :-)
|
|
| agree |
Andrea Capuselli
3 days 10 hrs
|
|
Muchas gracias, Andrea :-)
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "You did it again! Thank you!!!"
8 hrs
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish)
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
(AmE) Conveyed by a little urchin/ (BrE) whippersnapper/ from Big Mack Daddy
Velázquez's famous painting of Las Meninas, as Charles D. refers to, had also been my first thought. Perhaps speculatively, menino also struck me as derogatory or pejorative. I am unsure 'whippersnapper' works across the pond from the Brit. Isles.
My predicament with this question is what is the TL: AmE, BrE (ponce vs. pimp, urchin vs. little runt - reportedly changes meaning to a male organ Transatlantically) or 'offshore English'.
The other trouble with 'Big Daddy' for UK consumption is that this had been the fighting name of a legendary English wrestler who had certainly led a 'clean' private life.
Anyway, thanks to Charles for doing the spadework.
My predicament with this question is what is the TL: AmE, BrE (ponce vs. pimp, urchin vs. little runt - reportedly changes meaning to a male organ Transatlantically) or 'offshore English'.
The other trouble with 'Big Daddy' for UK consumption is that this had been the fighting name of a legendary English wrestler who had certainly led a 'clean' private life.
Anyway, thanks to Charles for doing the spadework.
Example sentence:
(street) urchin: a mischievous and often poor and raggedly clothed youngster
Reference:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/whippersnapper
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/mack-daddy
Reference comments
8 hrs
Cecilia Gowar
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
I read the Alethiometer
Native in: Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, French to Spanish, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
227
Reference:
A courtier?
There is no doubt that "menino" here refers to a servant of the pimp, as Charles said. However, since the word "servant" is used immediately after (mandil: 5. m. germ. Criado de rufián o de prostituta.) I wonder if you should not keep it as such, since the text plays not only with words but with comparisons between the brothel and respectable counterparts (like the royal chambers).
4 Su llave la trae: el mandil, como criado, puede tener el encargo de abrir la puerta del prostíbulo: trae la llave del establecimiento. Pero hay que señalar el juego alusivo a los gentileshombres de la cámara, cuya insignia era una llave dorada, llamada capona porque era honoraria y sin ejercicio (capona: "... se dice de la llave honoraria de gentilhombre de la cámara del rey, a quienes concede este honor sin ejercicio", Aut.). Es una asimilación burlesca del mandil
a gentilhombre y de la mancebía a la cámara real.
I do not know which would be the right word for ¨menino¨, defined as:
1. m. y f. Niño de familia noble que entraba en palacio a servir a la reina o a sus hijos.
I found ¨gentleman of the bedchamber¨but it seems a mouthful. I would also use another word instead of pimp, to keep the derisive style. Manager, perhaps?
Padre is defined as ¨regente de un burdel (Léxico).¨
This is the link I found, which you might find useful. There is a glossary at the end:
file:///C:/Users/Dell/Downloads/poesia-burlesca-tomo-ii-jacaras-y-bailes--0.pdf
4 Su llave la trae: el mandil, como criado, puede tener el encargo de abrir la puerta del prostíbulo: trae la llave del establecimiento. Pero hay que señalar el juego alusivo a los gentileshombres de la cámara, cuya insignia era una llave dorada, llamada capona porque era honoraria y sin ejercicio (capona: "... se dice de la llave honoraria de gentilhombre de la cámara del rey, a quienes concede este honor sin ejercicio", Aut.). Es una asimilación burlesca del mandil
a gentilhombre y de la mancebía a la cámara real.
I do not know which would be the right word for ¨menino¨, defined as:
1. m. y f. Niño de familia noble que entraba en palacio a servir a la reina o a sus hijos.
I found ¨gentleman of the bedchamber¨but it seems a mouthful. I would also use another word instead of pimp, to keep the derisive style. Manager, perhaps?
Padre is defined as ¨regente de un burdel (Léxico).¨
This is the link I found, which you might find useful. There is a glossary at the end:
file:///C:/Users/Dell/Downloads/poesia-burlesca-tomo-ii-jacaras-y-bailes--0.pdf
Discussion
poesía barroca española -JÁCARA DE LA MÉNDEZ
Not Mexico, anyway.
Charles también lo define citando otras fuentes.