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врач-гигиенист
учтенными
Dec 3, 2019 03:36
4 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Russian term

Все на борьбу!

Russian to English Art/Literary History Лозунг
Речь идет о борьбе международного пролетариата (да уж...)

Спасибо!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 Unite to fight!
3 +3 All Out to Fight!
4 +2 Close ranks
3 +1 To arms!//Get ready for battle!//Get ready to fight!
3 +1 United Against _______, Stand Together, etc
References
All for struggle!

Discussion

Turdimurod Rakhmanov Dec 4, 2019:
To Dylan Edwards, I understand what you mean. Why we say fight for justice? Why here is it Struggle?
Let's use your example: Fight for justice?
We may also say - Struggle for justice? So, what is the difference?
If we struggle-we work hard to solve that SOCIAL problem, not just fight?
If we fight we just fight?
It is hard to tell the difference, but I hope now it is clear.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Dec 4, 2019:
Fight vs Struggle A struggle is a long and difficult attempt to achieve something such as freedom or political rights.
If you fight for something, you try in a determined way to get it or achieve it.
If you fight something unpleasant, you try in a determined way to prevent it or stop it happening.
Besides, in ideology and social process, you can't use the term "fight" in such contexts, (but not always). So, "fight" would lead to a blunder in the sentence.
And a Slogan can be rendered in different ways, keeping the sense of the original.
We can use "Unite" as in famous slogan, "The workers of the world unite", but it does not fully convey the meaning. (Это будет означать сплотиться, объединиться), хотя очень близко по значению.
I believe that the target translation should include "struggle", but there are ways to get rid of that, if you don't want to use it. But it is a class struggle. This is an exact meaning.
If you all think that Struggle is weird, we don't use that, this is only used by Marx and Lenin, English is a different language, with its own means of expression. Then I would suggest another version:
For ex:
"Defend the Middle class"-this is also a slogan! Or you may highlight using "Go..!
Angela Greenfield (asker) Dec 4, 2019:
Thank you all so much! What would I do without you? :))
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Dec 3, 2019:
To Susan, Please, have a look here; the context is about this, this is also in English and UK English:
But at this stage a new struggle was formed between the bourgeoisie (the property owning class) and the proletariat (the industrial working class).
http://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/21cc/utopia/methods1/b...
Maybe the shortened form "All out for struggle" sounds strange because it is a slogan,
But what is meant here is We call for struggle all working class!
Susan Welsh Dec 3, 2019:
To Turdimurod In Russian, yes. But English is a different language, with its own means of expression. We simply don't say it the way you have suggested. The context presumably makes clear what sort of fight they are engaged in. Furthermore, the Russian борьба, бороться can also have the meaning of either physical fighting or a non-physical struggle.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Dec 3, 2019:
Dear Susan, I respect your opinion, but especially in a slogan it should depict the struggle of working class. You think that slogan should be whatever? Yes, it should be used in metaphoric sense. But how can you imagine that people would understand call to arms? First impression is gun, war? You will get that image in your mind. In Communist or Proletariat terminology it should clearly describe what it is, it is a struggle or it is a fight or something else. Fight has limited meaning, and it doesn't cover all efforts made by proletariat.
And again, you can't describe social process by the term "fight", this is a social process. I hope now you understand.
Susan Welsh Dec 3, 2019:
with Katerina It's irrelevant whether this is a physical fight or not -- it's a slogan and hence has a metaphorical quality. Aux armes, citoyens!
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Dec 3, 2019:
Hi Katerina, It is not a physical fight, or a war or the fight using guns or the fight in general meaning, it is about working class struggle, which is a long and difficult attempt to achieve something such as freedom or proletariat rights.
It is a call for working class to continue their struggle.
katerina turevich Dec 3, 2019:
Call to Arms Hi,

it's a suggestion. :)) If it appears as a heading, it's best for clarity.
I like 'close ranks' too, but 'close ranks' describes/appeals to only those already participating.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Dec 3, 2019:
Struggle. Meaning:
We call for struggle all (workers, proletariat of the world) against ....for...
I don't see any weird thing here as the Misha mentioned.
As it is "лозунг", so it should be short. So, I suggested the shortened variant: All out for struggle!

Proposed translations

+2
14 hrs
Selected

Unite to fight!

Unite to fight!

Join the stuggle!

- the first one sounds more emphatic.
Note from asker:
I absolutely LOVE this. Thank you so much.
Dylan, what do you think about this variation on your suggestion? "Unite for the fight!"
Peer comment(s):
agree Turdimurod Rakhmanov : Once again: This is not "fight", but class struggle, Join the struggle works, but it should be a call (to all working class). Your second variant is the closest one.
9 hrs
Thanks. 'Join the struggle' was the first version that came to mind - but where would grassroots politics be without the word 'fight'? 'Fight the cuts', 'Fight for justice', 'Get up, stand up, don't give up the fight'.
agree Roman Bouchev
1 day 11 hrs
Thanks, Roman
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+3
3 hrs

All Out to Fight!

В работах зарубежных авторов, посвященных революционной деятельности Ленина, часто встречается такая фраза: All Out for the Fight Against (Denikin). Например, Lenin's article 'All Out for the Fight Against Denikin' is an illustration of the way in which Lenin's organizational talents had been directed towards military affaits (Lenin: The Practice and Theory of Revolution, James. D. White). Разница только в том, что в Вашем случае отсутствует дополнение.
Example sentence:

Go all out to use the great discontent with registration to organize the masses!

Go all out to fight the imperialist war measures of the rich!

Reference:

https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-1/workers-advocate/10-5.html

https://books.google.ru/books?id=7NgcBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq="All+Out+for+the+Fight+Against+Denikin!"+"Lenin"&source=bl&ots=a03O0F_an

Peer comment(s):
agree Oleg Lozinskiy
17 mins
Thanks, Oleg!
agree The Misha : This is good too. Very inspiring:)))
2 hrs
Thank you!
neutral Turdimurod Rakhmanov : Your variant is about the fight against Denikin, it is the fight using guns. с оружием в руках выступали трудящиеся. The context is about proletariat struggle. Of course, may be used, but it limits the meaning. You don't defend your rights only with fight
4 hrs
Outright violence is not necessarily implied. Guns or something else may be used by the workers to defend their rights.
agree Lilia Festa Zaripova
4 hrs
Thanks!
agree IrinaN
7 hrs
Thanks, Irina!
disagree Susan Welsh : Nobody would say this in English.//Your examples are different than your answer. "Go all out to use..." is fine; "All out to fight!" as an imperative by itself is not fine. Linguistic corpora, like Google, are sometimes useful, but have their limits.
9 hrs
Susan, thank you! I think you could refer to linguistic corpora for more examples. We'd all appreciate your version, if you know a better way to express the same idea.
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+2
5 hrs

Close ranks

Close ranks to fight for the liberation of international proletariat!!! (shtob yego razorvalo:)))

That's if you want something that would sound a little more idiomatic and reek less of that corpse in the Mausoleum.

Cheers, Angela. Fun job, eh?:)))))
Peer comment(s):
agree Turdimurod Rakhmanov : I like your version. Idiomatic. Similar to "Workers of the world, unite!" But we are not so sure if we can use in this context.
42 mins
agree Roman Bouchev
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+1
8 hrs

To arms!//Get ready for battle!//Get ready to fight!

But Abdusamad’s thoughts of a leisurely siege were
interrupted when a messenger rode up from the vanguard:
‘The enemy’s not in the fortress, he’s waiting in open
country. Get ready for battle!’
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/565a42a7e4b0f06765f7b...
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

to arms!
in American English
get ready to fight!
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/to-a...

ccccccccc
used to order an attack, a summons to war or battle
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/to_arms

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Note added at 8 hrs (2019-12-03 12:10:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ccccccccccccc

Variant of option #1: "Calling all to arms!"
Peer comment(s):
agree Susan Welsh : with "To arms!" not the others
4 hrs
Thank you. Susan. I will rely on your impeccable judgement.
Something went wrong...
+1
18 hrs

United Against _______, Stand Together, etc

United Against _______

Sounds more like something that would actually be used. Capitalize all words if we're talking heading; don't if this is a slogan. See: "United Against _______ (Racism/Poverty/Corruption/Fascism". And, "We Stand Together Against ______ (Hate/Injustice/Bullying) etc. Also, "Arm in arm, stronger together".

"United Against" and (/We) "Stand Together" can be used as headings without specifying against what. "Stand Together" can also be used as a slogan. There's also "United we stand", which has it's own historical context.

Anything with "united" harkens backs to: "Workers of the world, unite!," so there's the extra bonus "о борьбе международного пролетариата".

"The phrase has overlapping meanings: first, that workers should unite in unions to better push for their demands such as workplace pay and conditions; secondly, that workers should see beyond their various craft unions and unite against the capitalist system; and thirdly, that workers of different countries have more in common with each other than workers and employers of the same country."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_of_the_world,_unite!

It also recalls:
"United we stand, divided we fall". "Phrase used in many different kinds of mottos, most often to inspire unity and collaboration. Its core concept lies in the collectivist notion that if individual members of a certain group with binding ideals – such as a union, coalition, confederation or alliance – work on their own instead of as a team, they are each doomed to fail and will all be defeated. The phrase is also often referred to with only the words "United we stand". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_we_stand,_divided_we_fa...


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Note added at 19 hrs (2019-12-03 23:25:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just in case: I didn't mean you should actually use words like "hate" or "bullying but that you can Google them (in combination with the proposed root slogan) to see this kind of phrasing used by various orgs, coalitions, etc.
Note from asker:
These are good suggestions. Thank you so much.
Peer comment(s):
agree Susan Welsh : could work
2 hrs
Thanks, Susan!
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

45 mins
Reference:

All for struggle!

All for struggle or
All out for struggle



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2019-12-03 04:23:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

All (working class) out for struggle
or get prepared for struggle.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
disagree The Misha : I wish you could appreciate how weird and unnatural this sounds in actual English.
4 hrs
Thank you, the Misha, to understand this, you have to read more about working class struggle. It is about that, I wouldn't use "fight" here. Fight and struggle have also its shades. And you should substantiate or provide proof to support your opinion?
disagree Susan Welsh : no way
11 hrs
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