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Dec 18, 2019 00:53
4 yrs ago
69 viewers *
French term

comité économique et social

French to English Bus/Financial Human Resources Staff representative committee introduced by Macron in 2017
https://www.legalplace.fr/guides/cse-code-du-travail/

Définition du comité social et économique
Le comité social et économique peut être défini comme étant une entité propre au sein d’une société ou d’une entreprise, établie via un accord.

Elle représente les intérêts des salariés auprès de l’employeur, mais facilite également toute démarche officielle qu’entreprend un employé.

La composition du CSE varie selon la taille de l’entreprise. Cet organisme est généralement composé de membres titulaires élus à la suite de l’élection au CSE et de l’employeur. Le nombre d’élusau sein du comité social et économique n’est pas fixe.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 Works council
5 -1 Social and Economic Committee (or team)
3 -2 business and economics development committee
References
Question asked before
Comité social et économique ... d'une entreprise
Works council

Discussion

Francois Boye Dec 22, 2019:
France has always had a public institution, called CES (Le Conseil économique et social).

What we are talking about is a 'Comité économique et social" for the personnel of business units. This new business institution is more comprehensive because it ' succède aux anciennes instances représentatives suivantes : délégués du personnel, comité hygiène sécurité et conditions de travail (CHSCT) et comité d’entreprise, progressivement à compter du 1er janvier 2018. Le CSE devient ainsi l'unique institution représentative du personnel dans l'entreprise.'

Each business unit with 11 employees/workers is compelled to have a CES, whereas only businesses with 50 employees/workers were compelled to have a 'Comite d'entreprise' in the past. That's why I said that the CES was relevant to a larger number of businesses.
SafeTex Dec 22, 2019:
@Francois Hello
Your use of "comprehensive" plus "for a larger number of companies" suggest that the CSE covers many companies. I'm not sure if this is what you meant but each company has its own CSE as long as it has 11+ employees (otherwise, it's facultative)
Also, it is most certainly not a "new institution created by Macron" which makes it sound like there is only one CSE in France. There are hundreds of thousands of CSE's in France.
Someone (Daryo?) did speak somewhere in this question about Le Conseil économique, social et environnemental (CESE) but that goes back under different names in French history well before Macron's time.
The CESE also has an official name in English as it has an English website. It's "The Economic, Social and Environmental Council (ESEC)"
Regards
SafeTex
Francois Boye Dec 22, 2019:
The new institution created by the Macron Administration is a comprehensive Works Council for a larger number of companies
SafeTex Dec 22, 2019:
@ all Hello
I think there are two ways to go here and you have both already. Either translate it into something remotely recognisable in English despite inherent/national differences (Works Committee) or translate the French word for word to keep the essential idea in French and to stay faithful to the source text (Social and Economic Committee)
The second suggestion was what translators went for last time (see my reference) while this time it is behind in agrees/disagrees.
That said, I'd go with the second solution this time but it's "au piff".
Wolf Draeger Dec 18, 2019:
Meet the new CSE, same as the old CE Wouldn't the easiest be to simply keep translating the new body as a "works council" since that is essentially what it is?

Depending on the situation and context, you could explain in varying detail how the new works council differs from the old works council (adding the CE/CSE FR initialisms in brackets or mentioning how the new council incorporates all the other bodies like the health & safety committee).
SafeTex Dec 18, 2019:
@ Conor Hello Conor
To answer your question about "blanding" it, it's true that "social and economic committee" does not reflect that this is staff representatives committee.
I suppose it could also depend on what comes after in your text. Does it go on to explain what this committee is or not,
As for stuff not coming up, I find the Proz site pretty hard to search on and often use Google (term + Proz) to get easier and quicker results than using the Proz search functions themselves.
But I remembered this question for some obscure reason which is why I searched for it in the first place.

Proposed translations

+3
14 hrs
Selected

Works council

Peer comment(s):
agree erwan-l : Definitely.
18 hrs
Thanks!
agree Michael Confais (X)
2 days 23 hrs
agree Wolf Draeger
4 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
5 mins

Social and Economic Committee (or team)

check the below web site
Reference:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-economic-social-

Note from asker:
Thanks Timothy! You must be having a short break from that job!
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : this ST is not about THAT one. Unfortunate coincidence. This "comité social et économique" (no caps) exists at the level of a single company, not the same as the EU institution "Comité économique et social européen (CESE)"
4 hrs
agree SafeTex : See my second entry in discussion. i strongly disagree here with Daryo' disagree as both entries in Proz were about the CSE at local level and never the CESE at European level
3 days 23 hrs
neutral Francois Boye : THe new institution created by the Macron Administration is a comprehensive Works Council for a larger number of companies
4 days
disagree Wolf Draeger : Definitely not, it's a works council by another name (beware of social & économique!)
4 days
Something went wrong...
-2
6 mins

business and economics development committee

At least that's what it would be called in the US.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : It wouldn't be called anything at all in the US as anyone even suggesting a similar "committee" in a US company would be most likely treated as "dangerous communist" ... BTW it's a "committee" representing employees, not for "developing business"/Context?
4 hrs
What you say in your "disgree" is incorrect, because I found the term in a District of Columbia (US) website.
agree Yolanda Broad
16 hrs
Thank you, Yolanda.
disagree SafeTex : if we logically assume that "économique" has been translated as "economics" in this suggestion, then we have to conclude that "social" has been translated as "business". That is very problematic for me.
3 days 23 hrs
disagree Wolf Draeger : No, it's the body that represents a firm's employees.
4 days
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

34 mins
Reference:

Question asked before

Social and Economic Committee chosen last time
Reference:

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/management/6590975-comit%C3%A9-social-et-%C3%A9conomique.html

Note from asker:
Sorry, that didn't come up when I searched, I have no idea why. What do you think of the idea of "blanding" it, i.e. using something like "Staff Representative Committee", as obviously the idea of this one new committee replacing all the old ones is that it does everything they did but the structure is simplified.
The point also being that "économique" and "social" have several meanings.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Daryo
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 hrs
Reference:

Comité social et économique ... d'une entreprise

Comité social et économique

Cet article possède un paronyme, voir Conseil économique et social.

Page d'aide sur l'homonymie Pour les articles homonymes, voir CSE.

En France, un comité social et économique (CSE) est une instance représentative du personnel qui succède aux anciennes instances représentatives suivantes : délégués du personnel, comité hygiène sécurité et conditions de travail (CHSCT) et comité d’entreprise, progressivement à compter du 1er janvier 2018. Le CSE devient ainsi l'unique institution représentative du personnel dans l'entreprise.
...
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comité_social_et_économique

Similar name, but NOT the same:

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodie...

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodie...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree erwan-l : Voilà !
2 hrs
Merci!
Something went wrong...
12 hrs
Reference:

Works council

According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council):

France
"A comité d’entreprise (C.E. or works council) was mandatory in any company with 50 employees or more. It is being replaced by the "Comité Social et Economique" (CSE or Business and Social Council) which must have been rolled out in all companies where applicable for 1 January 2020 the latest. Members of the CE are elected by all the employees, and have 20 hours of delegation per month. The main role of the CE or the CSE is being the interface between the employees and the members of the board which is constituted of the Chairman and the HR Director, mostly for collective issues, such as work organisation, training policy, benefits. Its consultation is compulsory in case of certain economic events, such as any company strategic moves, The number of members depends of the number of people in the company. All members of the CE or CSE have a monthly meeting with the board, in which very specific points are dealt with."
Reference:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comit%C3%A9_social_et_%C3%A9conomique

http://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34474

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Daryo : THAT makes sense!
6 hrs
agree erwan-l
20 hrs
agree Daniel Williams : Difficult to translate into English because neither UK nor US companies generally have them, but 'Works Council' is the most common translation in my experience.
1 day 3 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : Problem is the CSE replaced the Works Council so a different name is needed
144 days
Something went wrong...
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