Apr 23, 2020 06:43
4 yrs ago
30 viewers *
German term

Neunerprobe

German to English Law/Patents Law (general) It's about joint liability in car crashes involving multiple cars (Massenkarambolage)
For more context: 2. Blosse Teilhaftung bei additiver Kausalität
Der eingetretene Schaden resp. Verletzungserfolg kann sich auch aus mehreren selbständigen Teilwirkungen zusammensetzten. Letzteres haben wir vor uns, wenn durch verschiedene Unfälle unterschiedliche Körperteile verletzt werden, zunächst z.B. der Arm und dann das Bein. Oder im eingangs geschilderten Fallbeispiel mit den Bauschäden, wenn die Schädigungen an der Liegenschaft auf die einzelnen Bauvorhaben zurückzuführen sind, also nichts miteinander zu tun haben. Als Neunerprobe gilt: Denkt man die einzelnen Ursachen weg, so entfällt nicht der Gesamterfolg, sondern nur ein Teil der Verletzungsfolgen resp. des Schadens.

I think it means something like: Check your P's and Q's, but I may be wrong.

Discussion

philgoddard Apr 23, 2020:
It's an arithmetical test that shows whether your calculations are correct. I think Steffen's "litmus test" is a good approximation.
Haigo Salow (asker) Apr 23, 2020:
Ja genau, das macht Sinn: Das ist eine Checkliste der Bedingungen, die erfüllt weden müssen. Also eine Art von "condiciones sine quibus non".

Proposed translations

+2
11 hrs
Selected

rule of thumb

rule of thumb
a broadly accurate guide or principle, based on practice rather than theory.

The term 'Neunerprobe' seems to be used in this case as a way of expressing 'the general benchmark' for establishing a certain principle.
Peer comment(s):

agree Cillie Swart : nice one
1 hr
agree AllegroTrans
13 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
4 hrs

sum-of-its-parts test

I'm unsure Steffen 'litmus test' as a real or decisively indicative test (OED) is the same as a 'ballpark figure' or 'gues(s)timate'- query: a ninepin bowl-park test....

The context of the question suggests a 'novus actus interveniens' approach. There are contributory factors, but the end-result remains the same and it is for judges, like the late English Judge Lord Denning, to apportion blame for the accident e.g. 60/40% or 70/30%,
Example sentence:

Is 2+2 = 4? Is 1+1+1+1 = 4 ? Actually, the sum is equal to its parts. In math, this is pretty easy to see. But in many other areas, it is not. Is a car the sum of its parts? Is water the sum of its parts? Is a human the sum of its parts?

Peer comment(s):

agree Steffen Walter : Good thinking, Adrian.
5 mins
Thanks and danke schön, Steffen! I think that, in EN contract law, this would be a 'blue-pencil test' namely severability of (nugatory) clauses. Otherwise, I have - since time immemorial - preferred flotte Berliner Bienen to be 'dressed up to the nines'.
neutral philgoddard : I can't make head or tail of this, but I wonder if you're confusing "novus" (new) and "novem" (nine).
2 hrs
I'd never thought of equating - with the number nine - the idea of a 'new intervening act' in the ENG law of tort: namely a contributory factor to an inexorable result e.g. an ambulance negligently missing accident victims, but full marks for the try!
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+1
11 hrs

litmus test

Posted upon Phil's encouragement, but I am by no means sure if this really hits the mark ;-)
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard
19 hrs
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12 hrs

test

I would simply use "test" here. As in, "The test is:"
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1 day 19 hrs

a handy test

The tricky thing here is that an arithmetical procedure (Neunerprobe = casting out nines) is used in a metaphorical way, as it is in the following passage:
"Tag der Autonomie: Neunerjahre als Neunerprobe...Die Politik hat Lösungen durch Kompromiss erzielt, bei dem auf etwas verzichtet wurde, man jedoch gleichzeitig etwas Wichtiges erhalten habe: nämlich gegenseitiges Vertrauen“, sagte Historiker Carlo Romeo."
https://www.diebaz.com/2019/09/06/tag-der-autonomie-neunerja...

What we have here seems to be a process of elimination and litmus test at the same time. Unfortunately, 'casting out nines' seems to have less potential to become a figure of speech than its German counterpart.  Maybe it's not possible to come up with an English term that contains both ingredients. The best I was able to do was to come up with a workaround and transfer some of the meaning to the rest of the sentence.

Als Neunerprobe gilt: Denkt man die einzelnen Ursachen weg, so entfällt nicht der Gesamterfolg, sondern nur..
=
Here's a handy test: If you set aside all individual factors, this shouldn't impact the overall result but only...
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Reference comments

41 mins
Reference:

Zum Hintergrund ...

... siehe https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuner-_und_Elferprobe (der Begriff stammt aus der Mathematik)
"Umgangssprachlich wird der Begriff Neunerprobe auch allgemein für eine überschlägige Prüfung von Ergebnissen verwendet."

Im Englischen könnte ich mir hier "litmus test" vorstellen.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree philgoddard : http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting_out_nines I would vote for "litmus test" if you posted it.
6 hrs
I did, but I am by no means sure ...
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