This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Nov 16, 2020 12:41
3 yrs ago
52 viewers *
Spanish term
"Homicidio premeditado en concurso real"
Spanish to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Criminal law
Hola a todos, espero que estén muy bien.
La frase que consulto pertenece a un diálogo entre un convicto y la asistente social. Ella le pregunta cuál es la condena, él responde 15 años, y ella dice:
-¿Homicidio simple?
él responde:
-"Homicidio premeditado en concurso real".
No sé cuál sería la traducción para esta figura legal, si es que existe tal cosa en el código penal estadounidense. En caso contrario la sentencia más aproximada también puede funcionar. No es un documento legal sino un film documental, la idea es plantear un panorama sobre la situación de los convictos. Los tecnicismos no son fundamentales.
Muchas gracias desde ya.
M
La frase que consulto pertenece a un diálogo entre un convicto y la asistente social. Ella le pregunta cuál es la condena, él responde 15 años, y ella dice:
-¿Homicidio simple?
él responde:
-"Homicidio premeditado en concurso real".
No sé cuál sería la traducción para esta figura legal, si es que existe tal cosa en el código penal estadounidense. En caso contrario la sentencia más aproximada también puede funcionar. No es un documento legal sino un film documental, la idea es plantear un panorama sobre la situación de los convictos. Los tecnicismos no son fundamentales.
Muchas gracias desde ya.
M
Proposed translations
(English)
References
| Concurso real |
Sergio Kot
|
Proposed translations
12 mins
Guillermo Masio
Argentina
Argentina
Native in Spanish
Works in field
Argentina
Director en H1BA
Native in: Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, Spanish, and 1 more.
First degree murder
Habría que ver de qué tipo de concurso real se habla, para de ser necesario aclarar a situación, pero en Estados Unidos no hay nada más arriba que el First degree murder que equivale a homicidio premeditado y al que cabe siempre la pena máxima.
Example sentence:
For instance, in New York, first-degree murder requires that the murder involve “special circumstances,” such as the murder of a police officer.
Note from asker:
| Gracias. Ambos tienen razón. Y todavía no encuentro el modo exacto de traducirlo (si es que la ley de USA contempla tal figura...). Es first degree murder, y también refiere al tipo de condena por lo que Sergio exolicó en su hilo. Hay más de un crimen concomitante (supongo que lo más probable es que fuera un robo que derivó en homicidio. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Sergio Kot
: Creo que no se refiere a la gravedad del delito, sino al tipo de condena.
24 mins
|
|
Claro. Hablo de la condena, no de la gravedad del delito. En la pregunta aclaran que los tecnicismos no son importantes, por lo cual pensé que el diálogo podía ir: "Second degree murder? // First degree murder".
|
-1
52 mins
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois) 
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
1668
Multiple first degree murder/homicide
Assumin translator wants US English.
Note from asker:
| Thanks Allegro. As Guillermo says, this is not a multiple homicide. At least not that we know. "Concurso real" means that the accused has committed more than one kind of crime, for example (and highly probably in this case) robbery and homicide. |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Guillermo Masio
: I definitely don't believe this is the case of a multiple homicide.
12 hrs
|
-1
2 hrs
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
590
Spanish term (edited):
"Homicidio premeditado en concurso real" con....
USA: premeditated felony murder / on a joint prosecution of offenses/
en real concurso connotes to me that there is something missing, namely other 'serially connected' offens/ces he has been 'banged up for', like illegal possession of firearms in Vienna City Center, breaking and entering, smashing a window etc. in order to commit the murder. In E&W, the broken window would be left off lest to avoid 'overloading' the bill of indictment.
Sour grapes, perhaps, as in my answer on the discussion entry weblink, but concurrent offences could be prosecutable, both jointly / en concurso real/ and separately / en concurso formal o ideal > for mulitple offenses committed by a single act: West.
'USA: FELONY MURDER DOCTRINE:
The Law.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.
Criminal law rule where a death that is caused *during the commission of a dangerous felony act*, even if accidental, may result in a charge against the defendant as first degree murder. The defendant felon can be charged with first degree murder even if the defendant didn’t actually kill the victim, e.g. an accomplice did when shooting the clerk in the bank.'
For further enlightenment as to 'felonies' / E&W: serious arrestable offences vs. misdemeanors > non-serious, non-arrestable offences, refer to 50 Cent etc. Gangsta' Rap music.
Sour grapes, perhaps, as in my answer on the discussion entry weblink, but concurrent offences could be prosecutable, both jointly / en concurso real/ and separately / en concurso formal o ideal > for mulitple offenses committed by a single act: West.
'USA: FELONY MURDER DOCTRINE:
The Law.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.
Criminal law rule where a death that is caused *during the commission of a dangerous felony act*, even if accidental, may result in a charge against the defendant as first degree murder. The defendant felon can be charged with first degree murder even if the defendant didn’t actually kill the victim, e.g. an accomplice did when shooting the clerk in the bank.'
For further enlightenment as to 'felonies' / E&W: serious arrestable offences vs. misdemeanors > non-serious, non-arrestable offences, refer to 50 Cent etc. Gangsta' Rap music.
Example sentence:
US of A: N.Y. Crim. Proc. Law § 40.40 Current through 2020 NY Law Chapter 272 Section 40.40 - Separate prosecution of jointly prosecutable offenses; when barred
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Guillermo Masio
: I'm not sure it's a felony murder. Could be, but we don't know. Too wild a shot.
10 hrs
|
15 hrs
David Hollywood
Native in English
Works in field
worked for int. orgs (IMF, OAS, IDB)
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
1245
I just wanted to kill him/her
in this context
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2020-11-17 04:02:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
bearing in mind that this is an interview and the subject is not a legal expert
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2020-11-17 04:03:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
from the gut
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2020-11-17 04:08:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
no creo que haya falta buscar un término jurídico en este contexto
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2020-11-17 04:44:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
just see what he/she says
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2020-11-17 04:02:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
bearing in mind that this is an interview and the subject is not a legal expert
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2020-11-17 04:03:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
from the gut
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2020-11-17 04:08:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
no creo que haya falta buscar un término jurídico en este contexto
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2020-11-17 04:44:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
just see what he/she says
Note from asker:
| Gracias David, pero no es el caso. Ni siquiera me parece que eso suene a tipificación de un crímen sino a una confesión. En cualquier caso, se trata de crímenes distintos que se unen en una condena. Asesinato y otro...robo por ejemplo. |
Reference comments
30 mins
Sergio Kot
Israel
Israel
Native in Spanish
Works in field
Israel
Hebrew-English-Spanish-Yiddish-Aramaic
Native in: Hebrew (Variant: Modern / Israeli) , Spanish (Variants: Argentine, Standard-Spain, Rioplatense, Chilean, Latin American, Uruguayan)
Works in: Spanish to Hebrew, English to Hebrew, Hebrew to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
47
Reference:
Concurso real
Discusión: Concurso real
El concurso real supone la comisión de dos o más delitos distintos o independientes (fáctica como jurídicamente) por parte de la misma persona y que aún no han sido sentenciados (no es pluralidad de sentencias, es una sentencia respecto de varios actos) y tiene importancia a la hora de determinar la pena finalmente asignada (en consideración a todos los delitos cometidos).
Ahora bien, dependiendo del país en concreto, el tratamiento puede ser la acumulación aritmética de penas, acumulación jurídica o asperación, o el de absorción...
CONCURRENCE
Those imprisoned for multiple crimes usually serve a concurrent sentence in which the period of imprisonment equals the length of the longest sentence where the sentences are all served together at the same time, while others serve a consecutive sentence in which the period of imprisonment equals the sum of all the sentences served sequentially, or one after the other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_(law)
CONCURRENT SENTENCE
n. when a criminal defendant is convicted of two or more crimes, a judge sentences him/her to a certain period of time for each crime. Then out of compassion, leniency, plea bargaining, or the fact that the several crimes are interrelated, the judge will rule that the sentences may all be served at the same time, with the longest period controlling.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/concurrent se...
El concurso real supone la comisión de dos o más delitos distintos o independientes (fáctica como jurídicamente) por parte de la misma persona y que aún no han sido sentenciados (no es pluralidad de sentencias, es una sentencia respecto de varios actos) y tiene importancia a la hora de determinar la pena finalmente asignada (en consideración a todos los delitos cometidos).
Ahora bien, dependiendo del país en concreto, el tratamiento puede ser la acumulación aritmética de penas, acumulación jurídica o asperación, o el de absorción...
CONCURRENCE
Those imprisoned for multiple crimes usually serve a concurrent sentence in which the period of imprisonment equals the length of the longest sentence where the sentences are all served together at the same time, while others serve a consecutive sentence in which the period of imprisonment equals the sum of all the sentences served sequentially, or one after the other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_(law)
CONCURRENT SENTENCE
n. when a criminal defendant is convicted of two or more crimes, a judge sentences him/her to a certain period of time for each crime. Then out of compassion, leniency, plea bargaining, or the fact that the several crimes are interrelated, the judge will rule that the sentences may all be served at the same time, with the longest period controlling.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/concurrent se...
Example sentence:
Premeditated murder in real concurrency.
Reference:
https://www.linguee.com/spanish-english/translation/concurso+real.html
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/concurrent+sentence
Note from asker:
| Thank you all, I think this is the right direction. Not yet there, but still searching. |
| Apparently it's "premeditated murder with concurrence of offences". |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: OK but "Premeditated murder in real concurrency" makes no sense at all
19 mins
|
|
Well... Neither does "assumin". And it was just a thought, not a proposed answer. Thank you.
|
|
| neutral |
liz askew
: premeditated murder with concurrent sentence?
20 hrs
|
| agree |
Wendy Streitparth
: concurrent sentence for premeditated murder?
1 day 2 hrs
|
Discussion
The right answer is "premeditated murder with concurrence of offenses".
Thank you all very much.
People also ask
¿Qué es un concurso real de delitos?
En derecho penal, se conoce como concurso real o material a la pluralidad de actos en una misma sentencia. En el concurso real, cuando un agente, buscando un determinado resultado, ejecuta diversas acciones, cada una de ellas un distinto tipo penal, las penas de cada uno de estos delitos pueden unificarse.
Concurso real - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre