Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
sociétés et établissements
English translation:
companies/businesses and places of business
Added to glossary by
claude-andrew
Jul 21, 2021 13:52
2 yrs ago
49 viewers *
French term
France
Bilingual scientist English French
Native in: English 
Works in: English to French, French to English, English
sociétés et établissements
French to English
Bus/Financial
Management
supplier assessment
I need to express a difference between société and établissement.
Context: the two sentences in question are:
1) L’analyse porte sur les Sociétés (SIREN)
2) L’évaluation porte sur les Etablissements (SIRET)
https://www.l-expert-comptable.com/fiches-pratiques/qu-est-c... gives:
DIFFÉRENCE ENTRE SIREN ET SIRET
Le numéro SIREN est une série unique de 9 chiffres. Il prouve la légalité d’une entreprise. Le SIRET prouve quant à lui l’existence (et la légalité) d’un établissement de l’entreprise.
SIREN et SIRET permettent d’identifier de manière sûre chaque entreprise française. Ces deux numéros correspondent à leur carte d’identité.
Context: the two sentences in question are:
1) L’analyse porte sur les Sociétés (SIREN)
2) L’évaluation porte sur les Etablissements (SIRET)
https://www.l-expert-comptable.com/fiches-pratiques/qu-est-c... gives:
DIFFÉRENCE ENTRE SIREN ET SIRET
Le numéro SIREN est une série unique de 9 chiffres. Il prouve la légalité d’une entreprise. Le SIRET prouve quant à lui l’existence (et la légalité) d’un établissement de l’entreprise.
SIREN et SIRET permettent d’identifier de manière sûre chaque entreprise française. Ces deux numéros correspondent à leur carte d’identité.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+4
1 hr
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois)
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
20
Selected
companies/businesses and places of business
I have often translated company registration documents with this term
An "établissment" is a place of bisiness other than a company's registered office
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2021-07-22 15:51:24 GMT)
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A company's principal place of business is the primary location where its business is performed. This is generally where the business's books and records are kept and is often where the head of the firm and other senior management personnel are located.
Principal Place of Business Definition - Investopedia
Place of business means any bona fide office (other than a mere statutory office), factory, warehouse or other space which is occupied and used by the taxpayer in carrying on any business activity individually or through one or more of his regular employees regularly in attendance.
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Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2021-07-22 15:55:14 GMT)
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How do I get a SIRET number?
Your SIRET number will be issued once you have registered your business with the Chambre de Commerce (RCS) for trade, Chambre de Metiers for crafts and manual work or with URSSAF for intellectual services such as translator or website designer. You will receive an Extrait KBIS usually within two weeks of your registration with your SIRET number. For auto entrepreneurs, your SIRET number will be on the official letter sent to you by INSEE. So what is the difference between a SIREN number and a SIRET number? A SIRET is a 14 digit number referring to your business location (SIREN + 5 digits).
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Note added at 3 days 10 hrs (2021-07-24 23:54:43 GMT)
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What is meant by place of business and explain the term business?
The old definition reads as follows: “principal place of business” means the place of business specified as the principal place of business in the certificate of registration where the taxable person keeps and maintains the accounts and records as specified under section 42 ; ... It can be kept at any place of business.20 Jan 2017
An "établissment" is a place of bisiness other than a company's registered office
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2021-07-22 15:51:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A company's principal place of business is the primary location where its business is performed. This is generally where the business's books and records are kept and is often where the head of the firm and other senior management personnel are located.
Principal Place of Business Definition - Investopedia
Place of business means any bona fide office (other than a mere statutory office), factory, warehouse or other space which is occupied and used by the taxpayer in carrying on any business activity individually or through one or more of his regular employees regularly in attendance.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2021-07-22 15:55:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
How do I get a SIRET number?
Your SIRET number will be issued once you have registered your business with the Chambre de Commerce (RCS) for trade, Chambre de Metiers for crafts and manual work or with URSSAF for intellectual services such as translator or website designer. You will receive an Extrait KBIS usually within two weeks of your registration with your SIRET number. For auto entrepreneurs, your SIRET number will be on the official letter sent to you by INSEE. So what is the difference between a SIREN number and a SIRET number? A SIRET is a 14 digit number referring to your business location (SIREN + 5 digits).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days 10 hrs (2021-07-24 23:54:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
What is meant by place of business and explain the term business?
The old definition reads as follows: “principal place of business” means the place of business specified as the principal place of business in the certificate of registration where the taxable person keeps and maintains the accounts and records as specified under section 42 ; ... It can be kept at any place of business.20 Jan 2017
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Francois Boye
: The 'établissment' is a business segment of the registered business
3 mins
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It's a geographical location where the business operates or trades - see my DBox entry/ "Segment" refers to sectors/sub-sectors etc. of trade or industry
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| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: well yes, but this is just a synonym //https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/business establishment... it does! You can't keep saying "place of business" in a text
11 mins
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No it's geographical location - "establishment" doesn't convey that notion in English (an "establishment" can be totally online, as well as meaning an institution)
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| agree |
ph-b (X)
: "place of business" - my initial thought on seeing the question and certainly what I most frequently see in that field when translating (E>F) contracts.
16 hrs
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thanks
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| agree |
Julie Barber
: Lots of refs online to identify that the first is the company number (or business ID), and the second is the geographical identifier; the places of business. Perhaps the Asker could embellish it to make it very clear
18 hrs
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thanks
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| agree |
Daryo
: works also
23 hrs
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thanks
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| agree |
Steve Robbie
: It's hard to get massively worked up about it, but this will clearly work better than "establishments" if the reader has no prior knowledge/no other context to figure out what kind of "establishment" is meant.
23 hrs
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thanks
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| agree |
Samuël Buysschaert
: pretty clear, no risk of ambiguity.
1 day 1 hr
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thanks
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks Allegro."
+2
12 mins
Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Ireland
Native in English
Ireland
right word, right place. everytime
Native in: English (Variants: Irish, UK, US, Canadian)
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Businesses/companies and establishments
See here
http://org-id.guide/list/FR-RCS
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Note added at 16 mins (2021-07-21 14:08:51 GMT)
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Glad to help
http://org-id.guide/list/FR-RCS
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Note added at 16 mins (2021-07-21 14:08:51 GMT)
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Glad to help
Note from asker:
| Perfect, thanks Yvonne! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Marge Hogarty
37 mins
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Many thanks:-)
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| disagree |
Francois Boye
: This translation does not explain the difference between SIREN and SIRET
44 mins
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read the link and learn something!
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| agree |
Emmanuella
: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/human-resources...
1 hr
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Many thanks!
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| neutral |
philgoddard
: I agree with Francois - 'establishment' doesn't convey a clear meaning.
4 hrs
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I disagree. it's perfectly correct and anyway could be explained in more detail in the first occurrence.
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| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: I can see that you have understood this. Your ref. refers to "specific geographically located establishment" - in plain English rather than translationese this is a "place of business"
23 hrs
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Rather condescending? Nothing "translationese" about it. You can't keep putting the clunky synpnym "place of business", in the text. And it ain't a "branch" either
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| agree |
Daryo
: works also
1 day 7 mins
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Thank you! And yes it does.
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-1
4 hrs
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
24
companies as legal entities/companies' physical locations
How about this? I don't feel any of the previous answers is specific enough.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: "companies as legal entities" is the same as saying "wheels as round things"
19 hrs
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A company is both an abstract legal entity and a physical presence, but you probably wouldn't know that as a non-native speaker.
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| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: this is an improvement?
1 day 13 hrs
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Yes, I believe it's more specific than your answer. I don't believe 'establishments' conveys a clear meaning. For example, a shop is both a business and an establishment.
|
-4
55 mins
Francois Boye
United States
United States
Native in French
United States
An economic geek with social skills
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, French to English, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
businesses and business segments
A business receives one SIREN code at the moment of its registration. But the same business has segments with SIRET codes
Définition. L'établissement est une unité de production géographiquement individualisée, mais juridiquement dépendante de l'entreprise. Un établissement produit des biens ou des services : ce peut être une usine, une boulangerie, un magasin de vêtements, un des hôtels d'une chaîne hôtelière, la « boutique » d'un réparateur de matériel...
https://www.myaccountingcourse.com/accounting-dictionary/bus...
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Note added at 2 days 7 hrs (2021-07-23 21:10:03 GMT)
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https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/ot...
Définition. L'établissement est une unité de production géographiquement individualisée, mais juridiquement dépendante de l'entreprise. Un établissement produit des biens ou des services : ce peut être une usine, une boulangerie, un magasin de vêtements, un des hôtels d'une chaîne hôtelière, la « boutique » d'un réparateur de matériel...
https://www.myaccountingcourse.com/accounting-dictionary/bus...
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Note added at 2 days 7 hrs (2021-07-23 21:10:03 GMT)
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https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/ot...
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: what exactly are "business segments"??
4 mins
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Le numéro SIREN est une série unique de 9 chiffres. Il prouve la légalité d’une entreprise. Le SIRET prouve quant à lui l’existence (et la légalité) d’un établissement de l’entreprise.
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| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: "business segments"?? // it's about LOCATION (place where the company operates/trades). "Segments" - no way can this be correct
14 mins
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Le numéro SIREN est une série unique de 9 chiffres. Il prouve la légalité d’une entreprise. Le SIRET prouve quant à lui l’existence (et la légalité) d’un établissement de l’entreprise.
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| disagree |
SafeTex
: a business segment is a number of sectors taken together like the tourist industry (segment) comprises travel and hotels. Segments have nothing to do with this question.
2 hrs
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https://www.myaccountingcourse.com/accounting-dictionary/bus...
Le numéro SIREN est une série unique de 9 chiffres. Il prouve la légalité d’une entreprise. Le SIRET prouve quant à lui l’existence (et la légalité) d’un établissement de l’entreprise
|
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| disagree |
Daryo
: you are trying to force on "business segments" a meaning that it does not have.
23 hrs
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https://www.myaccountingcourse.com/accounting-dictionary/bus...
|
2 days 21 hrs
Conor McAuley
France
France
Native in English
Specializes in field
France
Excellence, Expertise & Experience
Native in: English (Variants: Wales / Welsh, UK, Scottish, Irish, British)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
companies // individual sites/premises
Need to translate SIREN and SIRET neatly, by getting across:
SIREN - main reg. no.
SIRET - for individual sites or premises of a company
Otherwise (playful jibe), wait 65 years for France to adopt the UK system (see PAYE)!
https://www.informdirect.co.uk/company-records/company-regis...
SIREN - main reg. no.
SIRET - for individual sites or premises of a company
Otherwise (playful jibe), wait 65 years for France to adopt the UK system (see PAYE)!
https://www.informdirect.co.uk/company-records/company-regis...
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: individual sites or premises of a company=places of business, tout simplement
12 hrs
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Discussion
Société/entreprise = company, corporation
Établissement : establishment, operation; may be also: branch.
For establishment, see: http://gdt.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ficheOqlf.aspx?Id_Fiche=8401913
I quote verbatim (p.225)
ÉTABLISSEMENT:
(place of) business; insttiution; settlement; premises; establishment; corporation
and for ÉTABLISSEMENT PRINCIPAL he has:
principal office; principal place of business
What "établissements" really means here is "branches" or "offices" in the case of a company, and "centres" or "units" for other entities such as an association or charity. We could almost say "satellites" ("antennes" in French)
See for instance: https://www.wordreference.com/fren/antenne
and the 3rd entry that says:
antenne nf (entreprise : branche) (figurative) satellite n
branch n
office n
Le numéro SIREN est une série unique de 9 chiffres. Il prouve la légalité d’une entreprise. Le SIRET prouve quant à lui l’existence (et la légalité) d’un établissement de l’entreprise.
Your SIRET number will be issued once you have registered your business with the Chambre de Commerce (RCS) for trade, Chambre de Metiers for crafts and manual work or with URSSAF for intellectual services such as translator or website designer. You will receive an Extrait KBIS usually within two weeks of your registration with your SIRET number. For auto entrepreneurs, your SIRET number will be on the official letter sent to you by INSEE. So what is the difference between a SIREN number and a SIRET number? A SIRET is a 14 digit number referring to your business location (SIREN + 5 digits).
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/difference-between-business-...
We have to translate 'sociétés et établissements' as defined by the SIREN and SIRET databases.
SIREN is a database of registered businesses. and SIRET is a database of business segments connected to businesses in the SIREN database.
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/difference-between-business-...