Jun 9, 2022 10:06
1 yr ago
23 viewers *
French term

travée (panne) de contreventement

French to English Tech/Engineering Construction / Civil Engineering
Still for the Grand Palais Ephémère.

A type of bracing structure. The first reference is "travée de contreventement"

"La tour d'étaiement est restée en place jusqu'à ce que les quatre travées de contreventement aient été posées"

Then immediately after :
"Les compagnons ont accompagné les arches en bois suspendues dans les airs, le temps de fixer les pannes de contreventement Ces poutres modulaires courbes sont conçues pour résister à des forces verticales."

Are pannes and travées the same thing? Also, my research has turned up rods, cables, portals and flanges as bracing systems, but nothing beam-like.

All help gratefully received.

Discussion

José Patrício Jun 10, 2022:
Séverine Watson
OK, discussing to improve
Sandra Petch (asker) Jun 10, 2022:
From further reading (and as CadastreToulous explains), I understand a travée is a unit of measure (in this case, the distance between two arches). Every so many "travées" there needs to be a bracing element. This is the travée de contreventement.

https://www.latelierpaysan.org/Bati20
Travée de contreventement
Cette travée est indispensable, quelque soit le nombre de travées. Elle a pour fonction le maintien de la structure totale, absorber les contraintes de vent et de surcharge, et absorber les mouvements qui peuvent s’opérer dans la structure (mouvement de charge, choc...). Pour le Bâti20 à 4 travées, une seule travée de contreventement est suffisante (à positionner au choix). Mais si l’autoconstructeur choisi d’augmenter le nombre de travées, voilà les prescriptions : à 5 travées préférez placer le contreventement au centre ; entre 6 et 10 travées, placer une travée de contreventement à chaque extrémité.
Conor McAuley Jun 10, 2022:
The ProZ site was bugging yesterday...
Conor McAuley Jun 9, 2022:
Is your plane crashing? :-) -
Conor McAuley Jun 9, 2022:
Is your plane crashing? :-) -
Conor McAuley Jun 9, 2022:
Is your plane crashing? :-) -
Séverine Watson Jun 9, 2022:
'Brace' yourselves... ...I'm happy to bow down to the others.

And seeing as you don't have any more context about that panne, purlin will probably be fine. I won't keep going on about it here! ;)
Sandra Petch (asker) Jun 9, 2022:
Absolutely all the context I have is included in the question.
Why do I hear voices shouting "brace, brace, brace!"? ;- )
Conor McAuley Jun 9, 2022:
From CadastreToulous's answer:

"A 'panne' is a 'purlin'. It is a horizontal member of a roof structure..."

But I suppose only Sandra can know (from unposted context) what exact part of the structure this is.

But I would certainly expect the Grand Palais Ephémère, with its arch-like shape, to be built using a roof-like structure, like a rounded roof (semi-circle shape), not like an inverted-V-like shape.
Séverine Watson Jun 9, 2022:
@Asker re: "panne" A "panne" can indeed be a purlin as Conor rightly said. However...

You really need to know what kind of panne you're talking about as the term used changes depending on its position in the roof structure and no doubt depending on where your target audience is. If it's an intermediate one, then "(intermediate) purlin" is perfectly fine.

If it is a panne faitière, then Termium gives "ridge board": https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?l...

Dicobat also gives ridge piece, ridge bar in that case.

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
French term (edited): travées (pannes) de contreventement
Selected

bracing spans/purlins

https://www.wordreference.com/fren/contreventement


wordreference.com/fren/travée

https://www.wordreference.com/fren/panne
(Definition no. 6)


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Note added at 1 hr (2022-06-09 11:50:07 GMT)
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The new "parts" perform the same function as the tower, which is a clue:

https://www.wordreference.com/fren/étaiement

Both structures/sets of parts prop up the overall structure so you can work that word into your translation too, if you really want to.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2022-06-09 12:36:21 GMT)
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Yes Sandra, I'm a bit surprised these technical terms are on Wordref, but "purlin" wasn't noted as being a US-only term, should be ok for the UK/international, too.

In certain areas of the US they do tend to go for all-wooden houses that you can put on the back of a big truck and move! Now that's moving house.
Note from asker:
Thanks Conor. Have been reading a few North American websites (lots of timber frames) and through cross-referencing, "panne" is definitely "purlin".
A friend of mine had a fabulous timber-framed house built in a suburb east of Paris. But she is Canadian ;- )
Peer comment(s):

agree Ben Gaia : Cross-brace should work too.
6 hrs
Thanks Ben!
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3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks! Without further context, I have opted for "bracing" as the catch-all option. "Panne" is a separate term (purlin)."
45 mins
French term (edited): contreventements

strut / prop (wooden structures)

My partner is a carpenter, he's clarified for me that travées and pannes are not the same thing.

You can have several types of "panne": panne faitière, panne sablière, panne intermédiaire and so on.

They are the horizontal pieces of wood in a wooden structure, and they have different translations depending on which term is used.

A "travée", meanwhile, is the space between pieces of wood (the span).

The way this sentence is written is a bit odd as obviously you can't install a span.

What you CAN install is this "contreventement", which is a load-bearing element in roof structures.

For wooden structures, which I believe is the case here, that can be either a "strut" or "prop".

These links may prove useful to you:
https://build.com.au/roof-framing-elements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_roof_truss

Dicobat is particularly helpful for definitions in French and often gives translations in English: https://www.dicobatonline.fr
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1 hr

span bracing

Typical bracing over one span of a multi-girder bridge (slab not shown) - https://www.steelconstruction.info/Bracing_systems
Contreventement - bracing - https://context.reverso.net/traduction/francais-anglais/Cont...
travée - 1. (= rangée) row, [de pont] span - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/...
A bracing system is a secondary but essential part of a bridge structure. A bracing system serves to stabilize the main girders during construction, to contribute to the distribution of load effects and to provide restraint to compression flanges or chords where they would otherwise be free to buckle laterally. - https://www.steelconstruction.info/Bracing_systems
Span is the distance between two intermediate supports for a structure, e.g. a beam or a bridge. A span can be closed by a solid beam or by a rope. The first kind is used for bridges, the second one for power lines, overhead telecommunication lines, some type of antennas or for aerial tramways. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Span_(engineering)#:~:text=Spa...
Span (architecture) Span is the distance between two intermediate supports for a structure, e.g. a beam or a bridge. A span can be closed by a solid beam or of a rope. The first kind is used for bridges, the second one for power lines, overhead telecommunication lines, some type of antennas or for aerial tramways. - https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/890176#:~:text=Span (...
Une travée (du latin trabs, « poutre »), dans le domaine de l'architecture, est une ouverture, un espace construit ou un élément de construction délimité par deux supports verticaux constituant les points d'appuis principaux ou les pièces maîtresses d'une construction (piliers, colonnes, arcs, fermes, poutres, etc.) - https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travée
stiffening - renforcement - https://dictionnaire.reverso.net/anglais-francais/stiffening
"Contreventement" - Élément de structure assurant la résistance d’une construction à des forces qui s’exercent horizontalement et sont dues notamment au vent, aux chocs et aux secousses sismiques.On utilise aussi le terme « contreventement » pour désigner l’action qui permet d’assurer cette résistance - https://langue-francaise.tv5monde.com/decouvrir/dictionnaire...
Peer comment(s):

neutral Séverine Watson : In light of the discussion, I take back my disagree as you do indeed have braces crossing spans. However, "braced bay" seems to be more prevalent.
1 hr
What about bracing spans - Conor McAuley
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2 hrs

braced bay (bracing element for 'panne')

A 'travée' is a 'bay'. A bay is the part of a structural frame between two members. These members will be vertical for a wall bay or sloping or horizontal for a roof bay. Some or all the bays of a structure may be braced (single diagonal) or cross-braced (two diagonals forming an X, see diagram attached).

A 'panne' is a 'purlin'. It is a horizontal member of a roof structure between two framing elements (the two side members of a bay). As such it braces the structure (prevents the two framing elements falling in towards or out away from each other). This might be all they mean by 'panne de contreventement', in which case all the purlins would be 'bracing purlins'. But I suspect this particular 'bracing purlin' is distinct from other purlins. Possibly it is bracing of the frame members BEFORE purlins are placed.

Then there is this:
"Une panne de contreventement est une cornière (en forme de L) qui se raccorde sur l’alaise du bas des pannes voisines pour prévenir le roulement de la panne." But this seems very specific.

Without seeing the structure it's difficult to know exactly what they are referring to.

For 'travée de contreventement' you're safe with 'braced bay', but I'd refrain from calling the 'panne' a purlin, and refer to it rather as a 'bracing element'.

" Figure 5 [see below] depicts a typical multi-floor building elevation with CROSS-BRACED BAYS beginning at the foundation level. While Figure 5 shows only ONE BAY OF BRACING, the height and size of the specific structure may call for bracing multiple bays along a given column line. As with all braced-frame configurations, it's important to establish the location of these bays quite early in a project's development."
https://www.aisc.org/why-steel/architect/engineering-basics/...

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8 hrs

cross-brace

Purlin or bracing span work too. This may be a more general term for the function.
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