Jul 23, 2022 17:26
1 yr ago
42 viewers *
English term

has my hand and arm

Non-PRO English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Hi everyone,
this is from Jane Austen's epistolary novel, Lady Susan, hence, it is in late 18th c. British English:

"I want her to play and sing with some portion of taste and a good deal of assurance, as she has my hand and arm and a tolerable voice. I was so much indulged in my infant years that I was never obliged to attend to anything, and consequently am without the accomplishments which are now necessary to finish a pretty woman..."

Lady Susan here is talking about her daughter and how she wants to have her educated in a private school in London.

Thank you...

Responses

+2
1 day 17 hrs
Selected

has a fine/beautiful/attractive hand and arm

Although it is against the prevailing opinion here so far, I believe that “she has my hand and arm” does refer to the attractiveness of Frederica’s hand and arm. Lady Susan believes that if Frederica can learn to play at least with “taste” and “assurance”, even if not with talent, that will be enough to allow her to attract potential suitors by showing off her physical attributes at the piano.

The following sentence makes it clear that it cannot mean “has my talent in playing”, as Lady Susan has no talent in playing: I was so much indulged in my infant years that I was never obliged to attend to anything, and consequently am without the accomplishments which are now necessary to finish a pretty woman.

The text continues:

Not that I am an advocate for the prevailing fashion of acquiring a perfect knowledge of all languages, arts, and sciences. It is throwing time away to be mistress of French, Italian, and German: music, singing, and drawing, &c., will gain a woman some applause, but will not add one lover to her list - grace and manner, after all, are of the greatest importance. I do not mean, therefore, that Frederica's acquirements should be more than superficial, and I flatter myself that she will not remain long enough at school to understand anything thoroughly. I hope to see her the wife of Sir James within a twelvemonth.

Support can be found for this interpretation in explanatory notes at the end of some editions of the novel or in some of the literary criticism on the novel.

From Lady Susan, the Watsons, and Sanditon: Unfinished Fictions and Other Writings
Explanatory Notes
I want her to play ... my hand & arm : viewed cynically, as here, for a young woman on the marriage market her performance at the piano or harp were as much an opportunity to show off her physical assets as her musical abilities.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=L7wyEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA251&lp...

From The Routledge Companion to Jane Austen
Chapter 17 Jane Austen and Music

In addition to demonstrating her obliging nature, modesty, and musical skill, the performer also displays her body to the male gaze. The title character of Lady Susan, though sceptical of the range and depth of accomplishments expected of a genteel young woman, understands this benefit of music education. Lady Susan reasons that ‘Grace and Manner after all are of the greatest importance’ and more likely to add ‘Lover[s] to her list’ than the more academic subjects of a girl’s education (LS 199). Therefore, she wants her daughter ‘to play and sing with some portion of Taste, and a good deal of assurance, as she has my hand and arm’ (LS 199). Since Lady Susan never learned to play, it is Frederica’s physical resemblance to her that she wants potential suitors to notice. Frederica is too meek to exert much agency in courtship, but Lady Susan demonstrates her ability to attract and manipulate men throughout the novella and is alive to the seductive possibilities of music performance. Thus, despite piano method books’ attempts to depersonalise a woman’s performance, Austen notes that a female musician draws notice, at the very least, to her hand and arm.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3ddCEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA223&dq...

An interesting blog on the theme

On the subject of playing musical instruments it is clear that no opportunity must be lost to display the performer in the best possible light.
“Let their attitude at the piano, or the harp, be easy and graceful. I strongly exhort them to avoid a stiff, awkward, elbowing position at either; but they must observe an elegant flow of figure at both.”
Playing an instrument and singing were basic accomplishments for any young lady and she was expected to help provide the entertainment at family gatherings and social occasions. Not only was this (hopefully) pleasant for the listeners, but it demonstrated her taste and allowed her to be viewed at her best by potential suitors. The ‘Lady of Distinction’ makes this display function exceedingly clear. She considered the harp showed “a fine figure to advantage. The contour of the whole form, the turn and polish of a beautiful hand and arm, the richly-slippered and well-made foot on the pedal stops, the gentle motion of a lovely neck, and above all, the sweetly-tempered expression of an intelligent countenance; these are shown at a glance, when the fair performer is seated unaffectedly, yet gracefully, at the harp.”
https://janeaustenslondon.com/2021/02/24/happily-adapted-to-...

Peer comment(s):

agree Daryo : convincing arguments + there was already a ***missed*** clue staring in everyone's face: the mother saying "I was never obliged to attend to anything" means that there was no "talent for playing piano" that could be passed on to her daughter!
11 hrs
Thanks, Daryo
agree Anastasia Kalantzi : Splendid analysis.
1 day 7 hrs
Thanks, Anastasia
neutral ÖZGÜR ÜSTÜN : Convincing explanation, considering the additional text. But I think the writer might also have meant talent, to the extent that she has, (i.e little), as both aspects the mother emphasizes are somewhat negative,"a tolerable voice" and "her hand and arm".
1 day 20 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you Alison, a compelling analysis indeed. Cheers!"
+8
35 mins

has my talent in (playing)

If I understood the question right, you are asking for an explanation for the term. If that is the case, then it means "she has my talent in playing (whatever the instrument is)"
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Yes, the hand and arm being the key physical attributes required for playing the piano
1 hr
agree David Hollywood
3 hrs
agree Alaíde Assunção
3 hrs
agree Arabic & More
3 hrs
agree AllegroTrans
4 hrs
agree Tantie Kustiantie
11 hrs
agree Yvonne Gallagher
13 hrs
agree Mary McComb
16 hrs
neutral Daryo : It COULD make perfect sense - ASSUMMING there was some "talent" to pass on in the first place - only small fly in the ointment, that interpretation is contradicted by the text sentence! (I missed it too).
2 days 4 hrs
I think, at least the mother believes that there is some talent to pass on, but no "accomplishments" as she was "indulged" and "was never obliged to attend anything" to improve her talent.
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-2
47 mins

She has inherited the features of my hand and arm

Lady Susan is confident in the look of her hands and arms, and is proud that her daughter has hands and arms that look like hers.

Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : Nothing to do with "look" here — this is about the skill with which she is able to use them (for playing the piano)
1 hr
How can you be so sure?
disagree AllegroTrans : You have totally misunderstood
4 hrs
Misunderstood what?
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : totally misunderstood
13 hrs
Misunderstood what?
agree Alison MacG : In spite of so many disagreeing, I believe this is the right idea
1 day 17 hrs
Thank you!
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-1
3 hrs

She isn't that beautiful like her mother but she has her hand and arm at the very least

Frederica Vernon
Daughter of Lady Susan. Oppressed by her mother, Frederica is very shy and it is only over time that the reader can perceive that rather than being stupid and stubborn, she is a sweet, sensible girl whose kind nature continually is at odds with Lady Susan's venal selfishness. Frederica is not as beautiful as her mother, but has a mild, delicate prettiness which, together with her evident ability to feel gratitude, endears her to the Vernons.

Main characters
Edit
Lady Susan Vernon
The main character is aged about 35 or 36 years old (middle-aged for the time). She is the daughter of an earl.[1] She is a widow of just a few months, who is known to flagrantly manipulate and seduce single and married men alike. As she has been left in a financially precarious state due to the death of her first husband, she uses flirtation and seduction to gain her objectives and maintain a semblance of her former opulent lifestyle. As a widow and a mother, her main goals are to quickly marry off her daughter Frederica (of whom she is contemptuous, regarding her as stupid and stubborn) to a wealthy man, and to marry an even better match herself. Mrs. Vernon describes her as.really excessively pretty. (...) I have seldom seen so lovely a woman as Lady Susan. She is delicately fair, with fine grey eyes and dark eyelashes; and from her appearance one would not suppose her more than five and twenty, though she must in fact be ten years older. I was certainly not disposed to admire her (...) but I cannot help feeling that she possesses an uncommon union of symmetry, brilliancy and grace."

Lady Susan is cold towards her daughter, for whom she feels little or no affection: she calls her "a stupid girl" who "has nothing to recommend her." It is possible that Jane Austen drew on the character of the mother of her neighbour, a beautiful Mrs. Craven, who had actually treated her daughters quite cruelly, locking them up, beating and starving them, till they ran away from home or married beneath their class to escape.[2] There is an ironic contrast between the beautiful but determinedly chaste Susannah of the Bible and Lady Susan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Susan
Peer comment(s):

disagree AllegroTrans : No, it's about her ability to play a musical instrument - the piano
2 hrs
It could be; I haven't read the entire book yet, thanks.
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : This is clear in meaning in the excerpt already given
10 hrs
Yeah, that's right, I haven't noticed the 'play and sing with some portion of taste'' spot!
agree Alison MacG : In spite of so many disagreeing, I believe this is the right idea
1 day 14 hrs
Surprisingly, thank you.
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