Nov 24, 2022 15:03
1 yr ago
32 viewers *
español term

El condicionamiento de un derecho o de una expectativa de derecho

español al inglés Jurídico/Patentes Recursos humanos anti-workplace bullying, sexual and gender-based harassment policy
The term appears in a company anti-harassment at work policy which quotes from Article 7.4 of "Ley Orgánica 3/2007, de 22 de marzo, para la igualdad efectiva de mujeres y hombres" :

"Artículo 7. Acoso sexual y acoso por razón de sexo.
1. Sin perjuicio de lo establecido en el Código Penal, a los efectos de esta Ley constituye acoso sexual cualquier comportamiento, verbal o físico, de naturaleza sexual que tenga el propósito o produzca el efecto de atentar contra la dignidad de una persona, en particular cuando se crea un entorno intimidatorio, degradante u ofensivo.

2. Constituye acoso por razón de sexo cualquier comportamiento realizado en función del sexo de una persona, con el propósito o el efecto de atentar contra su dignidad y de crear un entorno intimidatorio, degradante u ofensivo.

3. Se considerarán en todo caso discriminatorios el acoso sexual y el acoso por razón de sexo.

4. El condicionamiento de un derecho o de una expectativa de derecho a la aceptación de una situación constitutiva de acoso sexual o de acoso por razón de sexo se considerará también acto de discriminación por razón de sexo."


Could anyone help confirm the meaning of

"condicionamiento de un derecho o de una expectativa de derecho"

in paragraph 4? I have found a couple of questionable "official" translations online, which render it very literally and do not make much sense:

4. The conditioning of a right or expectation of a right to the acceptance of a situation
constituting sexual harassment or harassment on the grounds of sex will likewise be
regarded to be discrimination on the grounds of sex.

Thanks in advance!
Change log

Nov 24, 2022 15:07: Natasha da Silva changed "Restriction (Pairs)" from "none" to "working" , "Restriction (Native Lang)" from "none" to "eng" , "Restriction Fields" from "none" to "specialty"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Rosa Paredes

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Discussion

José Julián Díaz Jan 8, 2023:
To condition a right or the right expectation to the acceptance of a…
Rosa Paredes Nov 26, 2022:
Unnecessary filters, question is fairly basic Natasha, It seems you do not understand the sentence in English. It needs to be rearranged, as pointed out by Jennifer who is not able to post a suggestion, because of the filters you applied.
Andrew Bramhall Nov 24, 2022:
@Jennifer Levey and Adrian The reason your post was blocked was that whilst you were complaining that the asker-imposed filters were debarring you from answering, you then asked Phil G to post a neutral or disagree on my answer, which comes under the rubric of " attempting to unfairly influence others" which is in breach of site rules.
Natasha da Silva (asker) Nov 24, 2022:
@all Thank you all for your contributions.
Respectfully, you are entitled to your opinions, and I am entitled to apply the filters that I deem to be appropriate to the topic, which is employment law (a specialist area). I could only select Law>Human Resources as the closest available option. I'm sorry if that leaves anyone incensed but I prefer to limit the answers using Proz's suggested criteria in the hope that only people with the relevant specialist knowledge will respond with useful answers. I have noticed on these forums that a great many people pop up to pitch in on terminology discussions with wildly inaccurate guesses. I suppose some are just desperate to earn "Kudoz" points.
Thanks and good evening.
Jennifer Levey Nov 24, 2022:
@Adrian If you try to extend your suggested translation to include the part starting at a la aceptación de una situación ..., you will discover that your interpretation of condicionamiento (= 'constraint') doesn't work.

"Otherwise, I'm baffled by the filters and moderator's note." - you're not alone!
Adrian MM. Nov 24, 2022:
constraint of a right or of the expectancy of ... acceptance.... // It does work, Jennifer L., namely in the sense of 'hedging about with qualifications' and, strictly, expectancy in law implies expectation of a right or entitlement. '.. an interest held by a person who may receive something (..) in the future but has no enforceable right to it.'


https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/real-estate/11...
Otherwise, I'm baffled by the filters and moderator's note.
Jennifer Levey Nov 24, 2022:
Right of reply to moderator @eski You hid one of my posts in this discussion and posted the 'Note' at the top of this page.

In the e-mail I received, purporting to justify hiding my post, it says, quote: Reason: Attempting to influence others.

The hidden post merely opened the way for Phil to post an answer based on my first contribution to this discussion thread (an answer I couldn't post myself, for reasons mentioned elsewhere in this discussion).

I did that solely for the purpose of facilitating the entry into the Glossary of a valid answer to the question, which had already been validated by Phil (and was validated later by Robert). I am therefore very happy to plead 'guilty' - of influencing a colleague to act for the benefit of the entire Proz en/es community (not to mention casual visitors from around the world who benefit from Kudoz).

I invite you to reconsider your decision, and take the appropriate damage-mitigation action.
Jennifer Levey Nov 24, 2022:
@Andrew As explained in the first post in this discussion, it's not about 'making a right. It's about 'making (something - in this case, certain rights or expectations) conditional upon (something else)'.
Andrew Bramhall Nov 24, 2022:
"MAKING a right"? Rights can be formulated, introduced, entertained, etc, etc, but apart from " two wrongs not making a right", never heard the two words in close proximity before.
Jennifer Levey Nov 24, 2022:
All of which just goes to show that:
“El condicionamiento de un derecho o de una expectativa de derecho de encontrarse plenamente habilitado para participar en Kudoz a la aceptación de un filtración constitutiva de discriminación más o menos arbitraria, puede tener consecuencias inesperadas."
(with apologies to the legislators behind the Ley Orgánica 3/2007, de 22 de marzo)
philgoddard Nov 24, 2022:
I've just noticed that I'm also excluded because I don't have a "specialist level of expertise" in human resources.

You don't need specialist expertise in this subject - it doesn't have a jargon of its own, like medicine, for example. But I'm still able to post comments and answers.
Robert Carter Nov 24, 2022:
Actually, it's strange because, presumably, given that he doesn't have the blue ribbon beside his name, Andrew would also have been blocked from answering if that were the case. Maybe something else is blocking you?
philgoddard Nov 24, 2022:
That's ridiculous!
Jennifer Levey Nov 24, 2022:
@Phil OK. Sorry to say that those darned filters won't let me agree with (y)our answer :(
philgoddard Nov 24, 2022:
Jennifer Done! Thanks.
Robert Carter Nov 24, 2022:
I agree with Jennifer's answer here in the discussion, or you could say "Conditioning the right or the expectation of a right upon..."
philgoddard Nov 24, 2022:
Yes, that's it, Jennifer I'm not sure which of Natasha's many criteria you don't meet, but in my opinion it's a mistake to filter answers. In particular, being a paying or non-paying member doesn't affect the quality of your contributions.
Jennifer Levey Nov 24, 2022:
@Asker With the filters you have imposed, I can't post an answer.
That said ...
It will help if you reorder the ideas in English.

4. El condicionamiento de un derecho o de una expectativa de derecho a la aceptación de una situación constitutiva de acoso sexual o de acoso por razón de sexo se considerará también acto de discriminación por razón de sexo."
--> (for example)
4. Making the exercise or expectation of a right conditional upon (the victim's) acceptance of a situation that constitutes sexual ...."

IOW, condicionamiento = making (something) conditional upon (something else)

Proposed translations

9 minutos
Selected

The facilitation of a right, or expectation of such a right,...

The facilitation of a right or expectation of a right on the basis of acceptance of a situation constituting sexual harassment or harassment on the basis of sex shall also be deemed to constitute discrimination on grounds of gender.

Yes ' conditioning', the literal translation wouldn't work here. Something fairly vague and general like ' facilitation' may well work here in my opinion;
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for providing the most simple and helpful answer, while refraining from unnecessary commentary and snarky insults!"
+1
49 minutos

Making a right, or the expectation of a right,

...conditional upon the acceptance of sexual or gender-based harassment, also constitutes gender-based discrimination.

For example, "you're not getting a pay increase unless you sleep with me".

Thanks to Jennifer for clarifying "condicionamento".
Peer comment(s):

agree Robert Carter
4 minutos
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

4 horas
Reference:

possibly useful

https://sired.udenar.edu.co/574/1/document (83)_removed.pdf

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2022-11-24 19:56:03 GMT)
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https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/law-contracts/...

perhaps

determination of

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2022-11-24 19:58:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/law-contracts/...


rather,

determining
Something went wrong...
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