Dec 10, 2022 13:14
1 yr ago
37 viewers *
French term
valant titre
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Promesse de vente dispute. Mr AAA is annoyed because the vendor didn't turn up to sign the promesse, despite being obliged to go through with the sale.
"Monsieur AAA est, par conséquent, bien fondé à demander au Tribunal, à titre principal, de constater la vente parfaite intervenue lors de la signature de l’offre d’achat du 23 mars 2022 par les parties, et de rendre une décision valant titre entre les parties."
...
"PAR CES MOTIFS
...
Dire que le jugement rendu vaut titre entre les parties,
..."
There's an entry for this expression in the archives : https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-contracts/1... . But I think that the answer there ("possession gives title") is wrong for this question (and in fact wrong for that question).
This is nothing to do with a possessor acquiring title of ownership over a thing, whether movable or immovable, as the thing we're concerned about here is the judgment itself.
I *think* that in my case it means that the judgment is "valid", "binding", "definitive", "genuine", "irrevocable" ... or something like that. But what precisely?
"Monsieur AAA est, par conséquent, bien fondé à demander au Tribunal, à titre principal, de constater la vente parfaite intervenue lors de la signature de l’offre d’achat du 23 mars 2022 par les parties, et de rendre une décision valant titre entre les parties."
...
"PAR CES MOTIFS
...
Dire que le jugement rendu vaut titre entre les parties,
..."
There's an entry for this expression in the archives : https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-contracts/1... . But I think that the answer there ("possession gives title") is wrong for this question (and in fact wrong for that question).
This is nothing to do with a possessor acquiring title of ownership over a thing, whether movable or immovable, as the thing we're concerned about here is the judgment itself.
I *think* that in my case it means that the judgment is "valid", "binding", "definitive", "genuine", "irrevocable" ... or something like that. But what precisely?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | court decision awarding ownership |
Bourth
|
| 4 +5 | be deemed a binding and enforceable order |
Adrian MM.
|
Proposed translations
25 mins
Selected
court decision awarding ownership
For me it means they are asking the court to declare that due to the failure of the Vendor to turn up for the sale, the promesse de vente substitutes for the actual deed of sale ('acte authentique valant titre de propriété') and the the property is theirs.
I don't think the 'proposed translation' above cuts the mustard, but for the moment I can't come up with anything better.
Look at "ceux-ci l'ont assignée afin de voir déclarer parfaite la vente conclue le 9 novembre 1998, et ordonner la publication de la DÉCISION À INTERVENIR COMME VALANT TITRE DE PROPRIÉTÉ à leur égard'
https://www.courdecassation.fr/decision/5fca89cea676257b8315...
"comment peut-on prétendre obtenir un JUGEMENT VALANT TITRE SANS AVOIR SOI-MÊME SIGNÉ L'ACTE DE VENTE?"
https://avocatservice.ca/jugements/43/docmanov-c-4107781-can...
"« par l’effet d’une DÉCISION DE JUSTICE VALANT TITRE DE PROPRIÉTÉ À SON PROFIT aussitôt le solde du prix payé, »
https://www.doctrine.fr/d/CA/Fort-de-France/2021/C230FB23F27...
"ALORS QUE la publication d'une DÉCISION DE JUSTICE VALANT TITRE DE PROPRIÉTÉ incombe de plein droit aux seuls greffiers, avoués ou avocats et ne dépend donc pas de la volonté des parties ;"
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000026031631
" Proof of acquisition by adverse possession can be in the form of a COURT DECISION STATING THAT THE POSSESSOR OWNS THE PROPERTY. "
https://lawshelf.com/coursewarecontentview/contracts-for-the...
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Note added at 1 hr (2022-12-10 14:33:41 GMT)
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This is Mauritius, but it looks similar to French practice:
"On the other hand, once the buyer has exercised his/her purchase option, he/she may obtain a court decision compelling the seller to sign the notarial deed of sale in the event that the latter refuses to honour his/her promise to sell."
https://blog.liveinmauritius.com/role-of-notary-in-property-...
Except that in your case the process is, presumably, short-circuited, i.e. the seller is not compelled to sign the deed of sale, the deed of sale is deemed to be signed 'par contumace', if I may appropriate the expression.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2022-12-10 18:19:54 GMT)
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I suppose everything DEPENDS ON THE MEANING YOU ASSOCIATE WITH 'TITRE'. I understand it to be 'titre de propriété'. While this might not be deemed to be 'entre les parties' since it is issued by the notaire, if you replace 'titre de propriété' with 'acte de vente', which a/c to what follows it is 'aussi appelé', then you do indeed have a 'titre (acte de vente) entre les parties'.
" Titre de propriété
Aussi appelé “acte de vente”. C’est l’acte authentique rédigé et signé par un notaire, il désigne l’identité du propriétaire et les modalités d’acquisition du bien immobilier concerné (donation, partage …). Il est conservé au service de la publicité foncière."
https://www.hypotheques-en-ligne.fr/lexique/
I certainly agree that this would be poor legal writing, but we've all seen plenty of that in our time. N'est pas bon notaire/avocat/grammaticien/linguiste qui veut.
Below, I also give illustrations of how the courts can order a forced sale if the vendor fails to comply with the terms of the promesse de vente.
"Le complexe mitoyen est construit à l'aide du fondement mitoyen et/ou de l'accroche conformément à la convention, au règlement ou au JUGEMENT VALANT TITRE ENTRE LES PROPRIÉTAIRES voisins"
"Elle considère que l'expiration de la date limite détermine seulement le moment à compter duquel le contractant a la possibilité d'obliger l'autre à régulariser l'acte authentique et, à défaut pour celui-ci de s'exécuter spontanément, de DEMANDER JUDICIAIREMENT LA RÉALISATION FORCÉE DE LA VENTE."
https://www.courdecassation.fr/decision/5fd94fd113beb2387aaa...
"Le propriétaire refuse de vendre le logement après que le bénéficiaire a levé son option. Outre les dommages-intérêts qu'il peut réclamer, ce dernier peut aussi obliger le propriétaire à vendre son logement puisque la seule levée de l'option suffit à conclure légalement la transaction. Dans certains cas, si le vendeur joue la « politique de l'autruche », LE JUGEMENT DU TRIBUNAL PEUT MÊME FAIRE OFFICE D'ACTE AUTHENTIQUE OFFICIALISANT LA TRANSACTION (cf. " décision valant titre ").
Naturellement, l'indemnité est remboursée quand le propriétaire ne fait pas face à ses obligations."
http://www.akimmo.fr/juridique.html
I don't think the 'proposed translation' above cuts the mustard, but for the moment I can't come up with anything better.
Look at "ceux-ci l'ont assignée afin de voir déclarer parfaite la vente conclue le 9 novembre 1998, et ordonner la publication de la DÉCISION À INTERVENIR COMME VALANT TITRE DE PROPRIÉTÉ à leur égard'
https://www.courdecassation.fr/decision/5fca89cea676257b8315...
"comment peut-on prétendre obtenir un JUGEMENT VALANT TITRE SANS AVOIR SOI-MÊME SIGNÉ L'ACTE DE VENTE?"
https://avocatservice.ca/jugements/43/docmanov-c-4107781-can...
"« par l’effet d’une DÉCISION DE JUSTICE VALANT TITRE DE PROPRIÉTÉ À SON PROFIT aussitôt le solde du prix payé, »
https://www.doctrine.fr/d/CA/Fort-de-France/2021/C230FB23F27...
"ALORS QUE la publication d'une DÉCISION DE JUSTICE VALANT TITRE DE PROPRIÉTÉ incombe de plein droit aux seuls greffiers, avoués ou avocats et ne dépend donc pas de la volonté des parties ;"
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000026031631
" Proof of acquisition by adverse possession can be in the form of a COURT DECISION STATING THAT THE POSSESSOR OWNS THE PROPERTY. "
https://lawshelf.com/coursewarecontentview/contracts-for-the...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2022-12-10 14:33:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
This is Mauritius, but it looks similar to French practice:
"On the other hand, once the buyer has exercised his/her purchase option, he/she may obtain a court decision compelling the seller to sign the notarial deed of sale in the event that the latter refuses to honour his/her promise to sell."
https://blog.liveinmauritius.com/role-of-notary-in-property-...
Except that in your case the process is, presumably, short-circuited, i.e. the seller is not compelled to sign the deed of sale, the deed of sale is deemed to be signed 'par contumace', if I may appropriate the expression.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2022-12-10 18:19:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I suppose everything DEPENDS ON THE MEANING YOU ASSOCIATE WITH 'TITRE'. I understand it to be 'titre de propriété'. While this might not be deemed to be 'entre les parties' since it is issued by the notaire, if you replace 'titre de propriété' with 'acte de vente', which a/c to what follows it is 'aussi appelé', then you do indeed have a 'titre (acte de vente) entre les parties'.
" Titre de propriété
Aussi appelé “acte de vente”. C’est l’acte authentique rédigé et signé par un notaire, il désigne l’identité du propriétaire et les modalités d’acquisition du bien immobilier concerné (donation, partage …). Il est conservé au service de la publicité foncière."
https://www.hypotheques-en-ligne.fr/lexique/
I certainly agree that this would be poor legal writing, but we've all seen plenty of that in our time. N'est pas bon notaire/avocat/grammaticien/linguiste qui veut.
Below, I also give illustrations of how the courts can order a forced sale if the vendor fails to comply with the terms of the promesse de vente.
"Le complexe mitoyen est construit à l'aide du fondement mitoyen et/ou de l'accroche conformément à la convention, au règlement ou au JUGEMENT VALANT TITRE ENTRE LES PROPRIÉTAIRES voisins"
"Elle considère que l'expiration de la date limite détermine seulement le moment à compter duquel le contractant a la possibilité d'obliger l'autre à régulariser l'acte authentique et, à défaut pour celui-ci de s'exécuter spontanément, de DEMANDER JUDICIAIREMENT LA RÉALISATION FORCÉE DE LA VENTE."
https://www.courdecassation.fr/decision/5fd94fd113beb2387aaa...
"Le propriétaire refuse de vendre le logement après que le bénéficiaire a levé son option. Outre les dommages-intérêts qu'il peut réclamer, ce dernier peut aussi obliger le propriétaire à vendre son logement puisque la seule levée de l'option suffit à conclure légalement la transaction. Dans certains cas, si le vendeur joue la « politique de l'autruche », LE JUGEMENT DU TRIBUNAL PEUT MÊME FAIRE OFFICE D'ACTE AUTHENTIQUE OFFICIALISANT LA TRANSACTION (cf. " décision valant titre ").
Naturellement, l'indemnité est remboursée quand le propriétaire ne fait pas face à ses obligations."
http://www.akimmo.fr/juridique.html
Note from asker:
| Thanks. This makes perfect sense and eloquently expresses the hunch I've been getting since posing the question: it does indeed relate to the judgment, but also the determination of ownership. |
| Thanks, most helpful answer. I think the drafting is so poor that it doesn't however warrant a glossary entry... |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jennifer Levey
: The ST says une décision valant titre entre les parties, but any decision as to ownership is not 'between the parties' - it is for the benefit of one, to the detriment of the other.
1 hr
|
|
See added comment on interpretation of 'titre' above.
|
|
| neutral |
Tony M
: I agree with Jennifer here; if this is only at the 'Promesse de vente' stage, no tranfer of ownership is ready to take place.
2 hrs
|
|
See added comment on interpretation of 'titre' above.
|
|
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: This gets very close but I don't think the court "awards" ownership, more like it says that it already effectively exists ("constater la vente parfaite intervenue")
10 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, most helpful answer. I think the drafting is so poor that it doesn't however warrant a glossary entry..."
+5
1 hr
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
359
French term (edited):
valoir titre
be deemed a binding and enforceable order
Dire que le jugement rendu vaut titre entre les parties : do adjudge that the judgment entered 'operates as a judgment debt' = is deemed binding (as per asker) and enforceable authority (as) between the parties.
'This is nothing to do with a possessor acquiring title of ownership over a thing, whether movable or immovable, as the thing we're concerned about here is the judgment itself.' > no proprietary title.
In UK conveyancing, the titre IMO would be proof of, and authority for, a registrable, *binding* call & put aka buy and sell option and - I stand corrected by anyone with more up-to-date info. - that effectively blocks a sale of the land & buildings to anyone other than the beneficiary of the 'estate contract'.
Anecdotally, I had been told by UK lawyers returning to London from Luxembourg as ECJ inhouse translators to translate 'titre' in this context as judg(e)ment or judg(e)ment debt. The other way round into French, the first example sentence with IATE translations for judgment debt don't seem to have cottoned on to the titre de créance.
Apart from titre de détention = committal order in the Council of Europe FRE/ENG dictionary, the judgmental idea of titre seems to have passed Bridge and Navarre by.
See also > titre de paiement : payment order (ambiguous for a payment warrant or judgment to pay); EEC FRE/ENG Glossary, 1990.
'This is nothing to do with a possessor acquiring title of ownership over a thing, whether movable or immovable, as the thing we're concerned about here is the judgment itself.' > no proprietary title.
In UK conveyancing, the titre IMO would be proof of, and authority for, a registrable, *binding* call & put aka buy and sell option and - I stand corrected by anyone with more up-to-date info. - that effectively blocks a sale of the land & buildings to anyone other than the beneficiary of the 'estate contract'.
Anecdotally, I had been told by UK lawyers returning to London from Luxembourg as ECJ inhouse translators to translate 'titre' in this context as judg(e)ment or judg(e)ment debt. The other way round into French, the first example sentence with IATE translations for judgment debt don't seem to have cottoned on to the titre de créance.
Apart from titre de détention = committal order in the Council of Europe FRE/ENG dictionary, the judgmental idea of titre seems to have passed Bridge and Navarre by.
See also > titre de paiement : payment order (ambiguous for a payment warrant or judgment to pay); EEC FRE/ENG Glossary, 1990.
Example sentence:
IATE: LAW CdT en judgment debt CdT fr dette judiciaire CdT dette constatée par un jugement CdT créance judiciaire CdT créance constatée par un jugement CdT créance constatée par jugement CdT
fr titre exécutoire en enforceable title order for enforcement instrument for enforcement *enforceable judgment* enforcement order FINANCE accounting > titre exécutoire en executory (incomplete ?) title; *writ of execution*
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jennifer Levey
: 'binding' would probably be sufficient by itself.
32 mins
|
| agree |
Tony M
1 hr
|
| agree |
Anton Konashenok
: with Jennifer: 'binding' and 'enforceable' are usually considered fully synonymous.
1 hr
|
| agree |
Phillip North
1 day 1 hr
|
| agree |
Anastasia Kalantzi
1 day 7 hrs
|
Discussion
My best shot was "constitutes a title deed" but that is perhaps over-interpreting and also it gets few matches on the internet.
... the one legal aphorism from the Code where vaut titre is not followed by anything else is "la possession vaut titre" (Code Civil, 2276).
But titre there is understood to mean titre de propriété: the gnomic shortening of an expression in this way, to the point of bafflement for readers, is the standard practice of the French legislator of course.
Here, it seems unlikely that the court's judgment could be equivalent to the titre de propriété: this can only be the result of the acte authentique de vente. I assume therefore that they're talking about a titre de vente parfaite... but I'm not paid to make such speculations, and thus put a vague-ish expression (and explained the prob to the client).
Second, "entre les parties". I think this may indeed be bad drafting: I think it really means "pour les deux parties". I.e. in particular for the absconding vendor, whether he likes it or not.
Third: in one or two other places in this document the drafting does indeed fall short. Not dramatically, but enough. In fact, for me, I would by default interpret "vaut titre" (tout court) as meaning "is deemed equivalent to a document". Usually it's "X vaut titre de séjour / propriété / ...". As yet I see no actual *proof* of other meanings.
Fourth: the all-important context. This is obviously something only I can know, having seen the whole document. But what does the purchaser want? That the titre de vente is executed. Plus, a judgment is usually both "binding" and "enforceable": why would this need to be stated?
If this conjecture is right the drafting in this sentence is, yes, really poor, granted.