Dec 12, 2022 18:21
1 yr ago
26 viewers *
French term
personne à charge affective
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Assignment of shares in a Société Civile Immobilière.
"Société civile immobilière dénommée XXX ... et qui a pour objet en France et à l’étranger :
...
La mise à disposition gratuite, au profit des associés de tout bien immobilier que la Société pourrait détenir.
Cette mise à disposition gratuite pour tout bien ou droit immobilier que la Société pourra détenir bénéficiera exclusivement à M. AAA et/ou Mme BBB et toute personne à leur charge matérielle ou affective vivant sous leur toit.
Cette mise à disposition gratuite cessera au dernier décès des bénéficiaires susnommés.
..."
I assume that a "personne à leur charge matérielle" is "economic dependent". But affectif risks coming out as "emotional(ly) dependent" (!). I don't think that's what they mean. There are 000s of answers out there of a psychological kind, but I haven't seen a legal one.
Given the contrast here I wonder whether this might be "non-economic dependent". But what would that mean? A major child living under their roof? But in what sense would they then be "dependent"? If not paying any rent, would that then qualify them as not being an *economic* dependent? Seems unlikely.
I'm more inclined to think it means a minor (could equally be a major family member with some kind of incapacity of course) who is not an economic dependent for some reason. But in what non-economic way would they then be dependent? And what would the English legal expression be which somehow covers affectif?
"Société civile immobilière dénommée XXX ... et qui a pour objet en France et à l’étranger :
...
La mise à disposition gratuite, au profit des associés de tout bien immobilier que la Société pourrait détenir.
Cette mise à disposition gratuite pour tout bien ou droit immobilier que la Société pourra détenir bénéficiera exclusivement à M. AAA et/ou Mme BBB et toute personne à leur charge matérielle ou affective vivant sous leur toit.
Cette mise à disposition gratuite cessera au dernier décès des bénéficiaires susnommés.
..."
I assume that a "personne à leur charge matérielle" is "economic dependent". But affectif risks coming out as "emotional(ly) dependent" (!). I don't think that's what they mean. There are 000s of answers out there of a psychological kind, but I haven't seen a legal one.
Given the contrast here I wonder whether this might be "non-economic dependent". But what would that mean? A major child living under their roof? But in what sense would they then be "dependent"? If not paying any rent, would that then qualify them as not being an *economic* dependent? Seems unlikely.
I'm more inclined to think it means a minor (could equally be a major family member with some kind of incapacity of course) who is not an economic dependent for some reason. But in what non-economic way would they then be dependent? And what would the English legal expression be which somehow covers affectif?
Proposed translations
+3
2 hrs
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: Scottish, British) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
359
Selected
dependant with emotional ties; a person within the compass of natural love and affection
The substantive / noun is IMO dependant vs. the adj. of dependent.
I'm not sure there is an emotional dependence or a need to live under the same roof at all.
Emmanuela's discussion entry weblinks denote and connote to me a 'good vs. valuable consideration' scenario, namely - as we will remember from our 'grave' studies of Anglo-Am. and Irish contract law - one for natural love and affection: 'usually signifying something founded on moral obligation or affection for the value necessary to support an enforceable contract.'
Thus, euphemistically a DoFA - Deed of Family Arrangangement or Variation of a Will will recite that the deed is supported by 'good consideration in the shape of natural love & affection', though the realationship between routinely warring siblings, relatives, often housekeepers and farmhands may be anything but cordial.
I'm not sure there is an emotional dependence or a need to live under the same roof at all.
Emmanuela's discussion entry weblinks denote and connote to me a 'good vs. valuable consideration' scenario, namely - as we will remember from our 'grave' studies of Anglo-Am. and Irish contract law - one for natural love and affection: 'usually signifying something founded on moral obligation or affection for the value necessary to support an enforceable contract.'
Thus, euphemistically a DoFA - Deed of Family Arrangangement or Variation of a Will will recite that the deed is supported by 'good consideration in the shape of natural love & affection', though the realationship between routinely warring siblings, relatives, often housekeepers and farmhands may be anything but cordial.
Example sentence:
Créer une SCI familiale permet à des membres d’une même famille unie par un lien d’alliance ou par un simple lien affectif, de faciliter la détention, la gestion et la transmission d’un ou plusieurs biens immobiliers.
Many deeds will recite they are in consideration of love and affection. This is good consideration,and is sufficient,but it is not valuable consideration.
Note from asker:
| "With emotional ties" sounds good. Also thanks for pointing out the preferred spelling of the noun in a British context. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Adam Warren
: with the second proposal here. Thank you, Adrian.
11 hrs
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Merci and thanks, Adam. I assume the puffin photocaption is an oblique reference to the publishing house.
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
: first proposal; chuck the compass
12 hrs
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Merci and thanks, Chris. The compass could go to 'scope', but I've left both suggestions ('propos') in for indviidual preference,
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| agree |
Anastasia Kalantzi
13 hrs
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Merci, thanks again and efaristo, Anastasia.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks"
2 hrs
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
286
emotionally dependent person
I don't think there's anything wrong with this term - it doesn't necessarily mean something unhealthy.
These are from the Canadian parliament:
Nous définissons le partenaire à charge comme un adulte qui vit avec une autre personne une relation de dépendance affective engendrant une dépendance matérielle.
We define dependent partner as an adult who is in an emotionally dependent relationship with another person leading to material dependency.
http://www.linguee.com/french-english/translation/charge mat...
...dont les membres ont une relation de dépendance affective et qui deviennent matériellement à charge, qu'il s'agisse de couples de personnes de même sexe...
...couples who are in an emotionally dependent relationship that becomes materially dependent, be they same sex couples or...
http://www.linguee.com/french-english/translation/charge mat...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2022-12-12 22:11:50 GMT)
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I don't know what you mean by "I don't think this necessarily works for the world of .fr". This is presumably for a UK or US audience, not French speakers. My answer works in any English-speaking country.
These are from the Canadian parliament:
Nous définissons le partenaire à charge comme un adulte qui vit avec une autre personne une relation de dépendance affective engendrant une dépendance matérielle.
We define dependent partner as an adult who is in an emotionally dependent relationship with another person leading to material dependency.
http://www.linguee.com/french-english/translation/charge mat...
...dont les membres ont une relation de dépendance affective et qui deviennent matériellement à charge, qu'il s'agisse de couples de personnes de même sexe...
...couples who are in an emotionally dependent relationship that becomes materially dependent, be they same sex couples or...
http://www.linguee.com/french-english/translation/charge mat...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2022-12-12 22:11:50 GMT)
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I don't know what you mean by "I don't think this necessarily works for the world of .fr". This is presumably for a UK or US audience, not French speakers. My answer works in any English-speaking country.
Note from asker:
| Thanks for these links. The problem though is ... North America. Linguee is good, provided you look at the URL. Both of these are ... .ca. I don't think this necessarily works for the world of .fr. |
4 hrs
sentimentally attached person
This is purely my own invention, so call it guessing. Since the only confidence level involing guesswork is the lowest, that's what I've put it under. That doesn't actually mean my confidence level is low, because I actually think it's quite a good solution.
3 days 13 hrs
Laurence Fogarty
Italy
Italy
Native in English
Specializes in field
Italy
Translation with precision and care.
Native in: English
Works in: Italian to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
person under guardianship
See link provided in comment section, thanks.
Note from asker:
| This is a useful suggestion but I think it disregards the very specific meaning of "curatelle" and "tutelle". I suspect (but don't know for sure) that someone could be a "personne à charge affective" without being subject to a court-ordered guardianship measure. |
Discussion
Just to clarify, if it wasn't already clear – I believe that it should be "à charge effective" (and my solution below translates that quite well I think), it's a typo or a Freudian slip.
I think it's possible to translate the term without knowing the fine details of the sitatution...but of course it would be fascinating to know.
Maybe the situation becomes clearer later in the text, often happens.
https://www.google.com/search?q="charge matérielle ou affect...
At least in the legal sense, arguably in another not terribly flattering way.
Unless you are the fruit of Immaculate Conception (and/or very precocious in terms of language expertise) you are too.
(On reflection, I don't think Immaculate Birth would stop you being a child, it's just that your Dad would literally *know everything* about where you went and what you did, major drag)
https://www.carternewell.com > Latin Legal Term Glossary PDF document
A literal rendering works, probably, but would be a bit chicken.
I'm fairly sure that you can't say "major child", by the way.
https://www.lokizi.fr/societe-civilie-immobiliere-sci-famili...