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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

partenaires sociaux

English translation:

social partners [EU-speak]; labour and management / trades unions and employers' organizations

Added to glossary by Tony M
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
May 26, 2008 16:35
16 yrs ago
41 viewers *
French term

partenaire social

French to English Bus/Financial Human Resources managing organizational change, personnel
This is in a document about re-organization plans in a company that are likely to lead to redundancies. The only entry I've found for this exact term in the glossaries suggest the worryingly literal translation 'social partners'.

I'd appreciate it if any of you HR experts out there can tell me whether you think this term (which recurs several times, always used in the same way) is just yet another euphemism for 'collaborateur' or 'staff member', or whether in fact you think it relates to 'partners' of the company — but there is no other mention anywhere of the company having 'partners' like this (it is in fact a group, but still...).

They are talking a lot about consultation procedures etc., which makes me think they may only in fact be referring to 'the members of the company's staff who are going to be concerend by these changes'

I suppose what is really worrying me here is whether 'social' has the sense of 'de la société', or more the usual meaning social/welfare as in EN — perhaps I should also add that several times they mention the 'social impact' of these changes.

"...pour limiter les conséquences sociales de ce projet, [name of company] s’engage, en concertation avec ses partenaires sociaux, à proposer des mesures d’accompagnement adaptées à chaque situation."
Proposed translations (English)
4 +7 trade unions and employers' organizations
3 +1 labour and management
4 partners
3 +1 social partners
3 +1 trade(s) union
3 social partners
3 industrial partner
2 how about...
Change log

May 30, 2008 08:01: Tony M Created KOG entry

Discussion

Wordup (X) Apr 8, 2015:
Unions and management According to Oxford Dictionaries, partenaires sociaux = unions and management
Tony M (asker) May 30, 2008:
THANKS TO EVERYONE!

I can't write individual comment so all the answerers, so I hope you'll all accept my heartfelt thanks collectively!

I feel I have a much better understanding now of the term as a whole; in my particular instance, I feel pretty convinced that it was, as CB says above, a case of the wider term being used in fact for only one side of the coin. But in this instance brevity was more important than giving the reader a precise understanding of the deeper implications of the term, and so I copped out and used 'social partners' — there is sufficient of a European perspective on the document (which its readers are likely to be familiar with) to justify this, and also, to some extent, it retains something of the 'euphemistic' aspect of the term that was clearly intended from the carefully-couched tones of the original.

In view of the fact that all of you have contributed greatly to my question, I hope you'll forgive me if I don't single out any one answer in particular to award points; it seems more egalitarian just not to give any to anyone, though that might appear impolite!

Once again, thanks a lot to everyone — it's really heartwarming to see how my fellow KudoZers rally round when the going gets tough!
Charlie Bavington May 27, 2008:
Not much to add except to say don't overlook the fact that they could potentially be using a wider term ("soc parts") to actually refer to only one side of the coin (e.g. the unions), as BDF suggests - I have seen this before & it's dashed confusing :-)
CMJ_Trans (X) May 26, 2008:
and, sadly, the phrase "social partners" has crept into English via Eurospeak - I remember interpreting in a meeting with the EC and industry on the subject and using any term but "social partners" only to find that all the delegates used it blithely
sueaberwoman May 26, 2008:
d’un représentant titulaire de chaque organisation nationale de salariés et d’un nombre égal de représentants titulaires des organisations nationales d’employeurs...
http://info.assedic.fr/unijuridis/index.php?chemin=/ach04/dl...
sueaberwoman May 26, 2008:
...through the "commission paraitaire":
"Les commissions paritaires instituées en application de l’article 51 du règlement annexé à la Convention du 1er janvier 2004 relative à l’aide au retour à l’emploi et à l’indemnisation du chômage, sont composées...
sueaberwoman May 26, 2008:
The French employers' organizations are themselves considered as special sorts of unions, and are active on the national level. They also participate, as do trade unions, in running organizations such as l'Assédic (which handles unemployment benefits)...
Alain Pommet May 26, 2008:
... as in conséquences sociales.
Alain Pommet May 26, 2008:
IMO (nearly) all the answers are right - 'social partners' has definitely crept into official usage even if a translation whereas trades unions etc actually means something to most English speakers. But 'social' as adj. only refers to laid off workers.
CMJ_Trans (X) May 26, 2008:
social partners = staff representatives and official trade unions
swanda May 26, 2008:
that's it, apart from the fact that they mean both labour AND employers' organizations
Tony M (asker) May 26, 2008:
...and just to confuse matters still further

I've just come across another passage that puts the cat among the oigeons once more:

"Nous avons toujours noué des relations de confiance avec nos collaborateurs et les partenaires sociaux."

So clearly they are regarding these as 2 separate groups of people... I wonder if the 'partenaires' are perhaps just the union side of things: "with our staff and the unions"? Almost as if they are trying to take ownership of the various labour organizations that may exist...
swanda May 26, 2008:
according to your context, I'm quite sure it means that the trade unions and the employers' organization (MEDEF, I suppose) would be consulted
swanda May 26, 2008:
you can have a look at the definition given by wilkipedia (in French): http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partenaires_sociaux
cmwilliams (X) May 26, 2008:
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/areas/industrialrelations/dic...
Tony M (asker) May 26, 2008:
More context:
Here's a bit more that I've just come across, where it is for the first time made clear that this 'consultation and information' is going to be with the 'partenaires sociaux' — leading me to think that the interpretation suggestion by colleague Swanda is probably along the right lines in this case.

"La mise en place de cette nouvelle organisation s’effectuerait progressivement à la fin de la procédure d’information-consultation des partenaires sociaux"

Proposed translations

+1
5 mins

labour and management

given by the Dictionnaire du Management Robert & Collins
Peer comment(s):
agree cmwilliams (X) : yes. http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/areas/industrialrelations/dic...
16 mins
thanks cmwilliams
neutral sueaberwoman : Normally would agree, but here it sounds odd: the company management would be consulting... management?
31 mins
the company would consult the trade unions and the employers' organization; that's how it works in France, at least
neutral Charlie Bavington : I agree with the meaning, but not the register, I think it is a little too casual (+ it should really be the orgs that represent these two sides, not just the two sides)
16 hrs
Something went wrong...
14 mins

partners

In this case, the partners that come to mind are citizens'committees, municipalities, social clubs, universities,school boards, etc.
Something went wrong...
+1
17 mins

social partners

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2453858
and wikipedia gives quite an accurate definition of what, as a French speaker, I understand as "partenaires sociaux" (au pluriel)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 mins (2008-05-26 16:57:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Used at the OECD
http://www.oecd.org/LongAbstract/0,3425,fr_2649_37419_540159...
Note from asker:
Thanks, Anne! My only concern is that this particular reference concerns an already-translated FR text, and I don't have a lot of faith in the overall translation as a whole...
Again, although better, that OECD site appears to betray its origins as a translation from a FR source. I haven't found many convincing and on-context examples of it on native EN sites...
Peer comment(s):
neutral cmwilliams (X) : this is a literal translation that doesn't really mean anything in English.
5 mins
neutral swanda : agree with cmwilliams, here is an example of "social partners": http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_Social_Partners_Unit
28 mins
This is a specific organization you're referring to here, not an example
agree Charlie Bavington : Have seen it used in native Eng docs, altho admitedly for a European Works Council, which is where the euro-speak creeps in, I guess. I think it's an acceptable for a document from one of the "social partners", esp. if there's a European aspect or angle
16 hrs
thanks, I agree it's rather literal, however, one shouldn't be "plus royaliste que le roi"
Something went wrong...
26 mins

social partners

Seems to be an accepted umbrella term for employer organisations and trade unions. Crops up on a number of EU sites too. But it does seem a bit clumsy!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2008-05-26 17:23:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just found this native English site using the phrase in context -http://www.wspu.co.uk/

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 49 mins (2008-05-26 17:25:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

and again here- http://www.northeastassembly.gov.uk/page.asp?id=102


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2008-05-26 17:27:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry to keep adding things, but I do work with social enterprises and organisations in the third sector - we're often talking about social partners, especially in funding documents :)
Reference:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partenaires_sociaux

http://www.gla.ac.uk/wg/wg4_en.htm

Something went wrong...
1 hr

how about...

organisations for the workers exterior to the company.

as French 'social partners' can cover a plethora of evils up to and including the ANPE.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-05-26 18:07:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

there should be a comma between workers and exterior
Something went wrong...
+1
16 hrs

trade(s) union

Given your quote from the source text, I really cannot see how any employers' organisations could be involved here.

As a former, active trades unionist, I really object to the term "social partners", which has very strong political overtones of a reactionary variety. "The two sides of industry" is an uncontentious and more accurate expression.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2008-05-27 09:05:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, that should have been union(s).
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael GREEN : I think you're probably right, and the source text does seem to be only referring to unions here. I'm not very fond of the term "social partners", either :) In French, as you know, it's a commonly-used euphemism.... why can't people say what they mean ?!
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
+7
29 mins

trade unions and employers' organizations

Dans la nuit du 9 au 10 avril, les partenaires sociaux ont fini de rédiger leur position commune sur la représentativité des syndicats et le développement du dialogue social. Les négociations avaient débuté le 24 janvier entre le Medef, la CGPME et l'Upa, du côté patronal, et la CGT, la CFDT, FO, la CFE-CGC et la CFDT, du côté salarial
http://www.journaldunet.com/management/ressources-humaines/a...

Lorsque l'on fait référence à l'ensemble formé par les syndicats de salariés et les organisations patronales, on parle des partenaires sociaux
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisations_syndicales_profes...

employers' organization, employers' association or employers' federation is an association of employers. A trade union, which organizes employees is the opposite of an employers' organization. The role and position of an employers' organization differs from country to country, dependent on the economic system of a country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employers_organisation


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2008-05-26 17:10:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Depends on whether it's important that the reader identify exactly what "social partners" are...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-05-26 18:28:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Both types of organizations are "partenaires sociaux" on the national level : as with many things in France, a lot of decision-making takes place at the top of the pyramid.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2008-05-27 16:27:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And now another Euro-source -- which manages to squeeze in everybody's favorite translations!!!

"Social Partners. Popularly used term which designates **the employers' organizations** on the one hand and **the trade unions** on the other and indicates that, above and beyond their differing objectives, they also have some shared interests."
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/emire/FRANCE/SOCIALPARTNERS-F...

"The term ‘European social partners’ is used to refer to those organisations at EU level which engage in the European social dialogue, as provided for under Article 139(1). The identification of organisations claiming to fall within the meaning of the ‘management and labour’ raises numerous potential difficulties.
The Treaty never uses the word ‘representative’, but the Commission was clearly drawn to this criterion for identifying the relevant **organisations of management and labour**."
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/areas/industrialrelations/dic...
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael GREEN : This is how I have always understood the term, and it is certainly used in this sense by the French media, although it may not suit the context of Tony's document.
6 mins
Thanks, Michael!
agree nordiste : Usually in plural : "les partenaires sociaux" -
1 hr
Definitely. Thanks, Nordiste!
neutral swanda : la traduction que vous proposez ne reprend-elle pas très exactement les termes que j'ai employés? pas plus grave que ça, je laisse tomber
4 hrs
Isn't the idea to present alternate possibilities and let the asker pick? And I don't see your suggestion and mine as having exactly the same connotations (especially if outside of Europe).
agree katsy
4 hrs
Thanks, Katsy!
agree Sandra Petch : As Micheal Green says, this is certainly how the French media use the term.
14 hrs
Thanks, Sandra!
agree Emma Paulay : Absolutely. Ségolène Royal used the term all the time in her election campaign. It's a PC euphemism because unions has "connotations". For Tony's doc it will also include staff representatives, who may or may not be unionised.
14 hrs
Thanks, Emma!
agree Mark Nathan
15 hrs
Thanks, Mark!
agree Charlie Bavington : usually, of course. But potentially not exclusively. The govt is a "PS" in a state-run organisation, for example.
16 hrs
Thanks, Charlie!
Something went wrong...
4079 days

industrial partner

"social" can mean "social", "corporate" or "industrial".

"conflits sociaux" = "industrial conflicts"

"trade unions and employers' organisations" works perfectly well but my suggestion is a bit shorter. My phrase is not used in English, as far as I know, but it could be! It covers what the French covers.
Something went wrong...
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