Feb 27, 2011 19:51
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
sage
French to English
Art/Literary
Wine / Oenology / Viticulture
Sage: se dit d'un vin équilibré, bien vinifié, mais sans caractère affirmé.
pour aller avec un veau au curry: un vin de Vouvray un peu sage
sober?? This doesn't seem to be a common wine-speak term, anyone have a better idea?
pour aller avec un veau au curry: un vin de Vouvray un peu sage
sober?? This doesn't seem to be a common wine-speak term, anyone have a better idea?
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +3 | restrained | Emma Paulay |
3 +2 | balanced, if undistinguished | kashew |
3 +1 | decent | Evans (X) |
3 | tame | Marta Scott |
3 | reasonable | Rachel Fell |
1 | sensible | Tony M |
3 -2 | sweet / agreeable | Isabelle Barth-O'Neill |
Proposed translations
+3
3 mins
Selected
restrained
This is certainly used and I think it has a similar meaning.
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Note added at 2 days15 hrs (2011-03-02 10:51:44 GMT)
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"Docile" might be a good alternative:
http://toledowinesandvines.blogspot.com/2010/01/gewurztramin...
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Note added at 2 days15 hrs (2011-03-02 10:51:44 GMT)
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"Docile" might be a good alternative:
http://toledowinesandvines.blogspot.com/2010/01/gewurztramin...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
cc in nyc
3 hrs
|
agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
5 hrs
|
agree |
Catherine Gilsenan
1 day 2 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thank you!"
4 mins
sensible
I think this is a word that has a similar connotation, being a slightly backhanded compliment — or "damning with faint praise", to quote Shakespeare.
I'm thinking "Ladies with sensible shoes"...
Sensible... but maybe not very fun!
I'm thinking "Ladies with sensible shoes"...
Sensible... but maybe not very fun!
Note from asker:
thanks! |
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
cc in nyc
: I know "sensible" is in English here, but still it makes me think of a wine "qui a du sens." :-/ // not so sure it's a "mistake" - but that's just my reading
3 hrs
|
I don't think the ordinary EN reader would probably make the same mistake.
|
+2
1 hr
balanced, if undistinguished
*
Note from asker:
thanks - but I really needed something "shorter" here |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
cc in nyc
2 hrs
|
thanks
|
|
agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: good plonk!
4 hrs
|
thanks - good enough with a curried dish
|
-2
1 hr
sweet / agreeable
Je pense que cela peut correspondre dans le sens où ce vin est un vin qui n'est pas âpre.
Et puis en anglais : "a sweety" est quelqu'un de gentil et de sage.
Et puis en anglais : "a sweety" est quelqu'un de gentil et de sage.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
cc in nyc
: "sweet" se dit d'un vin qui n'est pas sec. // à mon avis même pas en guillements, même si le vin est doux, tandis que c'est "sans caractère affirmé" ;-(
2 hrs
|
Ok - mais si on y met des guillemets ??
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|
disagree |
Tony M
: Yes, 'sweet' would amount to a serious translation error here. / I think even that would be unwise — and unnecessary, inasmuch as sweet (as in 'sweet child', with the sense of 'mignon') doesn't really work in EN for wine anyway.
11 hrs
|
Ok, je savais - mais on peut y mettre des guillemets ?!?!
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+1
13 hrs
decent
This is a rather untranslatable expression. The fact that in one of the examples I give below they resort to the French expression in an English description suggests this is son.
I think it is generally pretty positive though. I have found the following examples of its use which suggest this. And in English wine tasting, ratings tend to use the word "decent" in a similar fashion. So this could well be an option. I think it would happily substitute for "sage" in these examples:
'Que ne dégustâmes nous pas ensuite ce fameux 1986 en guise d'épilogue, complètement apaisé dans le tanin, malgré une jeunesse compliquée, comme l’expliquait Eric. Un vin sage, de sage pourrait on dire, essence de gamay sur granit, d’une indicible élégance, mais sans maigreur.'
http://blog.cavesa.ch/index.php/2009/10/05/189727-un-quart-d...
'Là un vin sage à boire avec la quiche lorraine.'
http://ch172.gadz.org/sitemetz12.htm
'2004 Anjou Villages (Cab Sv) -- half aged in newish oak. Structured, very dry, very fresh, lovely fruit, not a touch of exaggeration, un vin sage, very good.'
http://www.jacquelinefriedrich.com/a_wine___food_guide_to_th...
3° Loupiac 1982 by Château Dauphiné Rondillon, France, Bordeaux
Cette bouteille aurait pu tenir encore plusieurs années, sans que je pense elle ne devienne franchement meilleure. Ce qui m’a particulièrement plu est sa note végétale (typique d’un vieux Sauvignon) et naturellement, l’intégration de ses sucres. C’est un vin sage, subtil. Son âge lui donne une grâce incroyable. L’émotion qu’il apporte est bien celle des vieux vins, mûrs, dont même les défauts se font accepter. Très belle expérience.'
http://wineops.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/noel-ses-emotions-et...
I think it is generally pretty positive though. I have found the following examples of its use which suggest this. And in English wine tasting, ratings tend to use the word "decent" in a similar fashion. So this could well be an option. I think it would happily substitute for "sage" in these examples:
'Que ne dégustâmes nous pas ensuite ce fameux 1986 en guise d'épilogue, complètement apaisé dans le tanin, malgré une jeunesse compliquée, comme l’expliquait Eric. Un vin sage, de sage pourrait on dire, essence de gamay sur granit, d’une indicible élégance, mais sans maigreur.'
http://blog.cavesa.ch/index.php/2009/10/05/189727-un-quart-d...
'Là un vin sage à boire avec la quiche lorraine.'
http://ch172.gadz.org/sitemetz12.htm
'2004 Anjou Villages (Cab Sv) -- half aged in newish oak. Structured, very dry, very fresh, lovely fruit, not a touch of exaggeration, un vin sage, very good.'
http://www.jacquelinefriedrich.com/a_wine___food_guide_to_th...
3° Loupiac 1982 by Château Dauphiné Rondillon, France, Bordeaux
Cette bouteille aurait pu tenir encore plusieurs années, sans que je pense elle ne devienne franchement meilleure. Ce qui m’a particulièrement plu est sa note végétale (typique d’un vieux Sauvignon) et naturellement, l’intégration de ses sucres. C’est un vin sage, subtil. Son âge lui donne une grâce incroyable. L’émotion qu’il apporte est bien celle des vieux vins, mûrs, dont même les défauts se font accepter. Très belle expérience.'
http://wineops.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/noel-ses-emotions-et...
Note from asker:
thank you |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Rachel Fell
: I nearly put that originally but didn't think it fitted so well into the phrase I thought Asker meant ;-)
1 day 3 hrs
|
thanks, Rachel.
|
16 hrs
tame
I liked restrained. Is tame taking things too far?
Some examples:
http://vivajabar.tumblr.com/
http://www.snooth.com/wine/abbaye-de-tholomies-minervois-200...
http://www.logabottle.com/home/subregionpage.php?subregion=1...
http://blog.wine-accessorized.com/2010/05/17/the-search-for-...
Quote from the last page:
This is a nice, tame, simple red wine with a very agreeable flavor profile. Not too big, not too tannic, not too sweet, this is a crowd-pleaser
Some examples:
http://vivajabar.tumblr.com/
http://www.snooth.com/wine/abbaye-de-tholomies-minervois-200...
http://www.logabottle.com/home/subregionpage.php?subregion=1...
http://blog.wine-accessorized.com/2010/05/17/the-search-for-...
Quote from the last page:
This is a nice, tame, simple red wine with a very agreeable flavor profile. Not too big, not too tannic, not too sweet, this is a crowd-pleaser
Note from asker:
thanks - I really like this one too |
6 hrs
reasonable
2001 Le Botti di Antistene Symposyo Rosso (Italy, Sicily ...
25 Dec 2004 ... Overall a reasonable wine, but lacking in character and uniqueness, as well as a less than exciting structure. ...
www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=35199
Maybe in your example: a reasonably good Vouvray
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Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2011-03-01 12:52:40 GMT)
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another suggestion: sound
Welcome to the Wine Gallery
Always a sound wine, the black-fruited Echelon Pinot Noir exhibits excellent liveliness on the palate; perfect with grilled salmon. Echelon Pinot Noir 2004 ...
www.winegallery-ryeridge.com/Results.cfm?PageNum_Results
Chateau Piada, Le Hauret du Piada (white), Graves, Bordeaux, 2005 2/5
A sound wine but lacking any excitement or definition.
http://www.foodvacation.com/id13.html
Not bad, but nothing really special either. Sweet, overripe cherry nose, almost cordial like, along with chocolate, plums and and touch of crushed flowers, almost fermenting in its sweetness. Rose syrup maybe. The palate was marked with dry, woody tannins, a liberal dash of wood spice and pepper, ripe berries, a touch of sour cherries and nice clean acidity. Very extracted, a little alcoholic, but decent enough balance. Finish had an interesting savoury note to it. Otherwise, I would say a sound wine, but rather souless.
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=393923
Her wine is an exemplar in my mind of that style of Chambolle but I don’t have the references to make the same judgement regarding specific site. The Rion example, yet another big, low acid 2005 is actually a sound wine but lacking any real personality. Ripe strawberry fruit, some mineral notes and really soft structure and hints of oak though nothing undue in terms of influence. No hint of the spark of great Chambolle. Actually sort of diffuse and even a bit hot. Not a bad wine really but not my style.
http://stevegoldun.wordpress.com/page/2/
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Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2011-03-01 12:55:11 GMT)
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@ Lori: I thought your question was specifically about the phrase "pour aller avec un veau au curry: un vin de Vouvray un peu sage", but I am not sure now.
25 Dec 2004 ... Overall a reasonable wine, but lacking in character and uniqueness, as well as a less than exciting structure. ...
www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=35199
Maybe in your example: a reasonably good Vouvray
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2011-03-01 12:52:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
another suggestion: sound
Welcome to the Wine Gallery
Always a sound wine, the black-fruited Echelon Pinot Noir exhibits excellent liveliness on the palate; perfect with grilled salmon. Echelon Pinot Noir 2004 ...
www.winegallery-ryeridge.com/Results.cfm?PageNum_Results
Chateau Piada, Le Hauret du Piada (white), Graves, Bordeaux, 2005 2/5
A sound wine but lacking any excitement or definition.
http://www.foodvacation.com/id13.html
Not bad, but nothing really special either. Sweet, overripe cherry nose, almost cordial like, along with chocolate, plums and and touch of crushed flowers, almost fermenting in its sweetness. Rose syrup maybe. The palate was marked with dry, woody tannins, a liberal dash of wood spice and pepper, ripe berries, a touch of sour cherries and nice clean acidity. Very extracted, a little alcoholic, but decent enough balance. Finish had an interesting savoury note to it. Otherwise, I would say a sound wine, but rather souless.
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=393923
Her wine is an exemplar in my mind of that style of Chambolle but I don’t have the references to make the same judgement regarding specific site. The Rion example, yet another big, low acid 2005 is actually a sound wine but lacking any real personality. Ripe strawberry fruit, some mineral notes and really soft structure and hints of oak though nothing undue in terms of influence. No hint of the spark of great Chambolle. Actually sort of diffuse and even a bit hot. Not a bad wine really but not my style.
http://stevegoldun.wordpress.com/page/2/
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Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2011-03-01 12:55:11 GMT)
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@ Lori: I thought your question was specifically about the phrase "pour aller avec un veau au curry: un vin de Vouvray un peu sage", but I am not sure now.
Note from asker:
thank you Rachel |
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: I think that implies more of a qualitative judgement than is appropriate here (it really doesn't mean 'reasonably good'), unless it is mistake for being 'reasonably-priced', which would be just as bad.
6 hrs
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but in the context, isn't it suggesting what to drink with the curried veal? I wouldn't usu. tr. it as "reasonable" and there's probably a better word that escapes me just now, but sth. positive is needed, surely?
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Discussion