Jul 17, 2020 09:34
3 yrs ago
33 viewers *
German term

Gutbogen

German to English Tech/Engineering Paper / Paper Manufacturing Printing
Does anyone of you have a translation for *Gutbogen*? The only context I have is a heading in a sustainability report: "xxx% Kartonabfall/1.000 Gutbogen". I managed to figure out that a *Gutbogen* is an error-free printed sheet. And I have found it translated as "good sheet" or "ok sheet", but couldn't confirm that.
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Chris Pr

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Discussion

Chris Pr Jul 23, 2020:
I see no bilingual confirmation of anything at all here....
And since when do sheets of perfect banknotes get sent off for recycling...?
Johannes Gleim Jul 23, 2020:
@ seehand Thank you for confirmation!
seehand Jul 23, 2020:
good sheets Bank of England and De La Rue printers talking about the printing of bank notes

http://www.britishnotes.co.uk/news_and_info/prefix_sightings...

and others

http://www.britishnotes.co.uk/news_and_info/prefix_sightings...



Johannes Gleim Jul 20, 2020:
Embarrassing I am struck by the fact that translators experienced in their field claim to know printing terminology better than the leading manufacturers of printing machines and therefore disqualify them and prefer terms used by distributors and advertising professionals without proving that their claims are true.
Cilian O'Tuama Jul 20, 2020:
Embarrassing You'd be surprised how many seemingly reputable companies have embarrassing translations on their websites.
Lancashireman Jul 19, 2020:
Modesty forbids We all have some sort of life experience or career background that makes our translations acceptable or even good.
Johannes Gleim Jul 19, 2020:
@ Alison That's why I prefer references from world market leaders in the affected sectors. In fact, MAN-Roland, Heidelberg, KBA and König & Bauer are some of the biggest printing machine manufacturers worldwide and hence reliable. Such big companies are represented in all relevant commissions for international standardization.

Note: As factory inspector I audited some of these companies for compliance to standards and was persuaded by their professionalism and knowledge.
Alison MacG Jul 19, 2020:
@Sanni Thanks, but my post was intended for reference only (I suspected it might be an existing translation of your document). However, English translations of German websites are of course not always reliable and all the links posted here so far are translations from German. It would be good if someone could come up wth some (original) English-language links.
Johannes Gleim Jul 18, 2020:
Not the best reference for printing Karl Knauer is not the leading edge for printing, but for cardboard displays, packaging material, bags and similar products for advertisements. See:

We are a leading company in the packaging and advertising industry in Germany; a successful developer and manufacturer of innovative solutions, and impressively different: down-to-earth, agreeable and sustainable.
https://www.karlknauer.com/about-us/

Karl Knauer: Von der Kartonagenfabrik zum Trendsetter der Verpackungsbranche-
:
Mit Expertise in nahezu allen Bereichen der Verpackungsbranche aus Voll- und Wellpappe sowie der Produktion von Notizwerbemitteln, Präsentverpackungen, dem hauseigenen Maschinenbau und umfangreichen Co-Packing-Dienstleistungen steht man für Leistungsstärke, Flexibilität, höchste Qualität und natürlich für noch mehr Innovationskraft.
https://packaging-journal.de/karl-knauer-trendsetter-der-ver...
Sanni Kruger (X) (asker) Jul 18, 2020:
Thank you all for your input Alison, your suggestion has been confirmed by another source, also pointing to this report: https://www.karlknauer.de/fileadmin/downloads/Nachhaltigkeit...
If you want to submit it as an answer, I'll award you the points.
Alison MacG Jul 17, 2020:
FWIW If I'm looking at the same sustainability report, the company in question has published an abridged version in an English translation. The equivalent phrase used is Cardboard waste per 1,000 accepted sheets
Paulose T. Jul 17, 2020:
Could it be good box? i am doing some lateral thinking or thinking out of the BOX!. ;-) i am assuming it is talking of certain % of carton being waste in making of one good box ( Gutbogen.. bogen as in Textbogen etc)

Proposed translations

+3
7 hrs
Selected

sheets (of paper) with acceptable print quality after printing

https://www.gutefrage.net/frage/was-ist-ein-gutbogen

https://www.heidelberg.com/global/media/de/global_media/prod...

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Note added at 7 hrs (2020-07-17 17:09:47 GMT)
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https://support.hp.com/ie-en/document/c02142902

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Note added at 7 hrs (2020-07-17 17:16:27 GMT)
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'print quality is acceptable.'

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Note added at 7 hrs (2020-07-17 17:30:45 GMT)
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'sheets of paper with acceptable print quality' is enough. 'After printing' can go in brackets as well or not be added at all.

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Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2020-07-19 08:02:17 GMT)
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https://print24.com/ie/print-products/printing-sheets/

I now think that it is referring to the actual sheets used for printing.
'high quality printing sheets.'

This does make more sense, so definitely leave out the 'after printing ' part.



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Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2020-07-19 08:08:30 GMT)
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Premium-Quality-Printing-Paper-Shee...
'premium quality.'

'Acceptable/high quality/premium quality printing sheets.'

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Note added at 3 days 1 hr (2020-07-20 11:30:48 GMT)
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https://www.antalis.ie/business/home.htm

'Nautilus is a premium recycled uncoated paper for professional printing.'

https://www.digitalprintingireland.ie/products/flat-unfinish...

'where we have delivered high quality flat unfinished sheets...'
Peer comment(s):

agree Kim Metzger : Better than "good printed sheets"
1 day 2 hrs
Thanks, Kim!
agree Lancashireman : Accords with Alison's find
1 day 18 hrs
Thank you! : )
agree Cilian O'Tuama : Nice to see someone speaks English here. In the factories I've visited in Germany, the English was so-la-la.
2 days 7 hrs
Thanks, Cilian!
disagree Johannes Gleim : Sorry, but print24, Amazon and HP are no relevant references for professional printing. No technical terms for proofing during this printing process on their homepages. // No ref. from printing machinery manufacturer.
2 days 12 hrs
Hi Johannes, These are original English language links, as per Alison's request.
agree Chris Pr
6 days
Thanks, Chris!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
1 day 7 hrs

good sheets (good printed sheets)

Dafür scannen die Drucker den ersten Gutbogen mit dem KBA DensiTronic PDF-System ein.
kba-print.de
The press operator scans the first good sheet off the run using the KBA DensiTronic PDF system.
kba-print.de
https://www.linguee.com/english-german/search?source=auto&qu...

The consequence of this is that the available resolution potential of the inspection systems cannot be fully exploited, or even that good sheets are incorrectly being flagged as defective and discarded due to lack of precision in the sheet transport, …
https://www.mabegsystems.com/en/products/mabeg/lines/

Rapida 106 X – the new performance benchmark in industrial printing
:
QualiTronic PrintCheck upgrades inline colour control by adding a production monitoring function. When printing starts, the system scans a set number of good sheets to generate a reference. All printed sheets are subsequently compared with this reference. Any deviations that are detected are displayed on the monitor and can also be marked in the pile by using an optional tag inserter. All these processes require no makeready and run fully autonomously.
https://www.koenig-bauer.com/en/news/details/article/rapida-...

The system automatically generates a digital reference sheet once production of good sheets begins, and compares every sheet with it inline. The system detects the smallest defects, such as hickeys, missing print, streaks, smudging and scumming, in real time. If required, it activates the paper waste drum which reliably removes the defective sheets from the production line via a gripper.
https://www.heidelberg.com/global/en/about_heidelberg/news_a...

Economic production of proofs and good sheets presupposes standardization in all areas of the printing workflow: not only the right setting of the press but also the alignment of ink feed, printing substrate, ink and the consistency of prepress-systems to the printing quality standards are some decisive factors. This avoids misunderstandings, increases efficiency and saves time and money.
https://www.manrolandsheetfed.com/en-GB/documents/3342/quali...

(Note: all mentioned companies are well known printing machinery manufacturers)

Before the machine can be used to inspect printed sheets, the system must first be trained by capturing known good printed sheets that meet the quality requirements. To accomplish this task, HALCON image processing software from MVTec Software (Munich, Germany; www.mvtec.com), is used to train a model of the variation of a reference sheet from a set of images of known good sheets. The model consists of a reference image and a variation image, and is used to determine permissible variation of any defects that may occur.
https://www.mvtec.com/de/unternehmen/einzelansicht-referenz/...

3.3) Letterpress Printing
Every printed sheet is carefully inspected. The good sheets are sent to printed serial number and signature by letterpress method, while imperfect or bad sheets are taken out of the system to be duly destroyed. The printing machine also has electronic numbering control to protect from miss - printing the numbering. This type of control helps prevent the repeat of numbering printed on each banknote of the same category.
https://www.bot.or.th/English/Banknotes/production_and_secur...


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Note added at 3 dias 20 minutos (2020-07-20 09:54:07 GMT)
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Bogendruck
Bei Zusammenarbeit mit GZ können Sie sich auf Bogendruck höchster Qualität verlassen; dies garantieren wir durch den Einsatz von Spitzenmodellen an Druckmaschinen der Firma Heidelberg. Mit diesen können wir den Ansprüchen unserer Kunden hinsichtlich ausreichender Kapazität für verschiedene Auftragstypen gerecht werden - von einfachen Papierwerbeblättern bis zu luxuriösen und produktionstechnisch komplizierten Kartonverpackungen. Zu jeder Bestellungen gehören immer vorab digitale Kontrolldrucke.
http://www.gzmedia.com/de-DE/Druckleistungen/Technologie/Dru...

Jede konventionelle Bogenoffsetmaschine besitzt mindestens ein Druckwerk, das aus Druckform-, Gummituch- und Gegendruckzylinder sowie Farb- und Feuchtwerk besteht. Typischerweise bauen die bedeutenden Druckmaschinenhersteller (wie zum Beispiel Heidelberg, manroland, KBA, Komori) die Mehrfarben-Offsetmaschinen in der sogenannten Reihenbauweise.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offsetdruck

Andruck
1. Im engeren Sinne als Maschinen- oder Pressproof (proof – englisch für Beleg, Fahnenkorrektur, Probeabdruck, Prüfabzug). Bezeichnung für einen Ein- oder Mehrfarbendruck in geringer Auflage, meist auf dem für den Auflagendruck geplanten Papier, erzeugt in einer Andruckmaschine, an dem sich erkennen läßt, wie der Druck im Vergleich zu einer Vorlage ausfällt.
2. Mit einem Druckformzylinder oder einer montierten Druckplatte in einer Andruckmaschine hergestellter Druck, der als verbindliche Vorlage später zur Steuerung der Farbgebung bzw. der Färbung im regulären Druckprozeß herangezogen wird.
https://roempp.thieme.de/lexicon/RD-01-02407

Prüfabzug, m. proof (Print.) (also: Bürstenabzug, m.); reader's proof
https://www.google.de/search?lr=&hl=de&as_qdr=all&biw=1261&b...

Wie bei jedem Handwerk finden sich auch im Druckbereich viele Fachbegriffe, die im normalen Sprachgebrauch so gut wie nie benötigt werden. …
Ein gutes Beispiel dafür ist der Abstimmbogen. …
Zunächst ist der Abstimmbogen ein Druckbogen wie jeder andere, der nach dem Durchlaufen einer Druckmaschine ausgegeben wird. Etwas Besonderes wird er erst durch die Rolle, die ihm zugewiesen wird. Grundsätzlich handelt es sich bei einem Abstimmbogen immer um einen der ersten Gutbogen eines Auflagendrucks. Dieser wird durch den Drucker entnommen und zur Kontrolle gegeben. Ist der Bogen erst einmal geprüft und freigegeben, gilt er als Soll-Vorgabe für das Aussehen des kompletten Druckauftrags.
https://www.saxoprint.de/blog/was-ist-ein-abstimmbogen

Im Überblick
• Kontinuierliche Prozessoptimierung durch künstliche Intelligenz
• Neue Heidelberg User Experience an der Speedmaster
• Ganzheitliches Speedmaster Operating System mit intuitivem Touch-Bedienkonzept
• 0 Min. zusätzliche Rüstzeit durch vollautomatische Preset-Funktionalität beim Bedruckstoff- und Formatwechsel
• Plattenwechsel mit AutoPlate XL 3 in unter 1 Minute
• Makulatur-Ausschleusung – keine nachträglichen Qualitätskontrollen notwendig
• Verbesserung der OEE (Gesamtanlageneffizienz) und bedienerunabhängige Leistung durch intelligente Automation
• Autonomes Drucken vom letzten bis zum ersten Gutbogen
https://www.heidelberg.com/global/de/products/offset_printin...
At a glance
• Continuous process optimization through artificial intelligence
• New Heidelberg User Experience on the Speedmaster
• Integrated Speedmaster Operating System with intuitive touch operating concept
• 0 minutes additional makeready time due to fully automated air settings when changing substrates using characteristic profiles
• Plate change with AutoPlate XL 3 in under 1 minute
• Waste ejection system – no subsequent quality inspection necessary
• Improvement of the OEE (Overall Equipment Effectiveness) and operator-independent performance through intelligent automation
• Autonomous printing from the last to the first good sheet
https://www.heidelberg.com/global/en/products/offset_printin...
Something went wrong...
6 days

good sheets produced

Love this one...

Given the context of sustainability and waste, I think the emphasis should be on the mere fact that this is about a percentage of acceptable sheets produced, and not the level of quality of those sheets.

Maybe can say verified sheets - that have been verified in terms of acceptable quality. But the percentage is referring to a percentage of verified sheets, not the percentage of total sheets that are verified.

In other words this is not about quality control but waste lol.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Used in a patent

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP0453862A1/de

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Note added at 2 hrs (2020-07-17 11:34:52 GMT)
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If you look at [0012] in the description. You can switch between the German and English version of the patent.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-07-17 13:56:41 GMT)
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The patent is “Method for producing proofs in one colour or in combinations of colours in a printing machine”
Something went wrong...
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