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enne-direzionale
flusso di attraversamento
Oct 27, 2023 12:39
7 mos ago
24 viewers *
Italian term

comprende, preferibilmente consiste di

Italian to English Law/Patents Law: Patents, Trademarks, Copyright Patent language
Can anyone confirm whether this construction reflects English patent language, and that "comprendere" is inclusive (comprise) and "consistere" is exclusive (consist of)?
Proposed translations (English)
3 does comprise (but) preferably consist of
Change log

Oct 27, 2023 14:26: Laurence Nunny changed "Field" from "Law/Patents" to "Art/Literary"

Oct 27, 2023 14:31: Laurence Nunny changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Law/Patents"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (2): Tom in London, Rachel Fell

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Discussion

Andrew Bramhall Oct 27, 2023:
AKM has got the wrong person.... ...i.e, the ST has the verbs in the singular and AMM has ignored the consonance; in other words, ' they consist of...' but 'it consistSSSS';
Laurence Nunny (asker) Oct 27, 2023:
Phil Goddard Hey Phil. Thanks for taking time to reply. I think your reply is misleading in this context, and might be better edited or taken down (comprise does not mean consist in this context). I understand the point about including context, and I thought it was clear from the post that I was referring to patents, but I guess I got a little caught up in my own world there.
Laurence Nunny (asker) Oct 27, 2023:
Consist/comprise Thanks Emmanuella. This is interesting, but not really what I was looking for. Here is an explanation of the issue: https://patentfile.org/patent-writing-tip-comprises-vs-consi...
Emmanuella Oct 27, 2023:
https://accademiadellacrusca.it/it/consulenza/consistere-in-...
Laurence Nunny (asker) Oct 27, 2023:
Patent specific language Thanks for your input, folks. This question is about patent-specific language. Sorry if that isn't clear from the posting. In English-language patents ,"comprise" and "consist of" mean different things. My question is whether Italian patents make the same distinction, and whether these are the terms that are used.
Emmanuella Oct 27, 2023:
Si, sarebbe utile poter leggere la frase in questione.
philgoddard Oct 27, 2023:
It can't mean 'comprises', because that's the same as 'consists of'.

I would have thought 'includes' is more likely, so that whatever it is consists partly, or preferably entirely, of whatever .

But yes, we need the context, please. If you provide this with your questions rather than waiting to be asked, you'll get quicker and better answers.
Heba Abed Oct 27, 2023:
Would you provide more context please.

Proposed translations

4 hrs

does comprise (but) preferably consist of

Taking the bull by the horns instead of posting discussion entries and voting PRO, I'm unsure of the reason for this query and whether this is back-translation - quaere: whether to reverse the language direction of ENG/ITA - but if the patent has been refused registration for being contradictory, then I can see why.

I can't comment on the Italian, but questionable drafting if the ST is English.

WIPO 'Transitional Phrase – “wherein the improvement comprises”
wherein the improvement comprises a protrusion being secured to the
handle. AND

TRANSITIONAL PHASE
CLOSED PHRASE (consisting of)
- limits the scope of the claim to nothing
more than the
specifically recited elements
- claim covers only elements named and
nothing more.
Example sentence:

WIP: 2 PATENT CLAIM FORMAT  WRITTEN AS A SINGLE SENTENCE  CLAIMS IDENTIFIER preceding the sentence, e.g. “Claim 1”  HEAVILY PUNCTUATED SINGLE SENTENCE AND ENDS WITH A PERIOD  APPEARS TOWARDS THE END OF THE ISSUED PATENT OR PATENT APPLICATI

Reference:

http://www.wipo.int/edocs/mdocs/aspac/en/wipo_ip_phl_16/wipo_ip_phl_16_t5.pdf

Note from asker:
Hi Adrian, thanks for answering. This isn't a back translation, although it looks like the Italian draftsperson might have mimicked English usage here. I was hoping someone with some knowledge of IP might be able to confirm my suspicion, but that is looking increasingly forlorn.
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