| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | End customer looking for registered freelancers Thread poster: Philippe Etienne
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Peter Leeflang 
United States
Local time: 06:54
Member (2014)
French to English
+ ...
| There is a market for every translator, every price, every quality | Feb 27, 2014 |
I'm with Preston Decker.
There is no reason to try to talk down about low priced translation offers nor negatively spurning such requests for low priced quotes in forums or direct emails.
There is a market for everyone, like there is also an Ebay auction site while at the same time there is a Christie's auction house.
I do understand that this complex translation marketplace will require that we translators who WANT to get more money for better quality, wil... See more I'm with Preston Decker.
There is no reason to try to talk down about low priced translation offers nor negatively spurning such requests for low priced quotes in forums or direct emails.
There is a market for everyone, like there is also an Ebay auction site while at the same time there is a Christie's auction house.
I do understand that this complex translation marketplace will require that we translators who WANT to get more money for better quality, will have to SELL better what we offer, by making more transparent our better quality work.
There is nothing wrong with us having to be better sales people. It happens in every industry. Customers do not give their money to us in exchange for our services, unless they have been convinced by us that it is for a value they need. That is fair.
Also, I do not feel like I ought to be derisive about my customers trying to get the least expensive translation service, even if they may do so due to being misinformed or uninformed. I prefer to treat them with respect and assume that they will eventually learn to judge better. If not, it will be their loss.
This is also why, if I believe it is worth my time and if I see that the customer is potentially not well informed, I do quote my own service quality and higher rates to potential customers, even if they come up with such preconceived low priced ideas, since, in my experience, they may then think gratefully of me when they enter a phase where they know better. It is actually a way of educating one's future customers.
And if there are potential non-customers who just cannot afford more and who are happy with a lower quality than I offer, all the more power to them. They also deserve to be able to get ahead with their limited means. Translations are not only for the wealthy customers, like there is also a Walmart while there is at the same time a Whole Foods, or a McDonald's living alongside a Ruth Chris' restaurant. Eventually the customer eating at McDonald's may one day move up and be able to afford Ruth Chris. I did.
Finally consider also that there are translators living in 'low cost countries' who deserve making a living too. They pass on their lower cost of living to their customers and both win with that. It does not hurt us at all. They just create a larger market where before there was none of it was small. They get mostly customers who we would not have had anyway.
I ran my own online retail company for 9 years and that experience taught me that there is room for everyone if one respects honest customers and partners and if one considers that most one deals with are that benevolent, unless proven otherwise.
Peter
[Edited at 2014-02-27 12:52 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-02-27 12:54 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-02-27 12:56 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-02-27 12:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | There is a market for all translations, but... | Feb 28, 2014 |
As an outsourcer, you need to understand what level of service you need, but sadly few do. Market segmentation is understood much better by translators than companies, who may be ignorant and under the impression that any old bilingual person with a dictionary and a bit of luck can translate anything under the sun. In some cases, outsourcing based on price is acceptable for a generic text or a text that needs translation for translation's sake (i.e. will probably never be read,) but absolutely n... See more As an outsourcer, you need to understand what level of service you need, but sadly few do. Market segmentation is understood much better by translators than companies, who may be ignorant and under the impression that any old bilingual person with a dictionary and a bit of luck can translate anything under the sun. In some cases, outsourcing based on price is acceptable for a generic text or a text that needs translation for translation's sake (i.e. will probably never be read,) but absolutely not when dealing with highly technical texts or any text where a thorough understanding of the subject matter + clarity of expression is required. Many companies seem to do this anyways, and they're tempting fate by handing it to someone who will work for 1 cent a word, especially if liability is involved.
I recall reading a forum post by José Lamensdorf about a deceptively poor translation he proofread. The problem was not that it was a grammatical or lexical mess, but that it looked incredibly professional and well written- except that all the technical terms were wrong! If I remember correctly, it was a user manual for some piece of specialized equipment on an oil rig- whose misoperation could have cost lives. And that's the rub: to competently translate a technical text, you need a level of education and experience that in no case could justify those rates.
We say it all the time as translators, but we really need to better educate clients about the rigors that go into our work, because it's obvious that most companies DO see translation as a commodity AND as something any old schmuck can do. ▲ Collapse
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Michael Marcoux wrote:
I recall reading a forum post by José Lamensdorf about a deceptively poor translation he proofread. The problem was not that it was a grammatical or lexical mess, but that it looked incredibly professional and well written- except that all the technical terms were wrong! If I remember correctly, it was a user manual for some piece of specialized equipment on an oil rig- whose misoperation could have cost lives. And that's the rub: to competently translate a technical text, you need a level of education and experience that in no case could justify those rates.
Clarifying...
I didn't proofread it. It was kindly provided as "reference material" for some additional translations I'd be doing for the same unit.
As I read it, it became obvious that it was post-edited machine translation, possibly done without the original. The translation "engine" was often fooled into interpreting phrases as exactly the opposite. The editor simply fixed the writing style, so that it would sound and feel as written by a human being.
My conclusion was that PEMT may be more dangerous than plain machine translation, because it leads the reader to believe that it is actually a professional translation.
| | | | Oleg Rudavin
Ukraine
Local time: 13:54
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
| The outsourcer knows perfectly well what they are doing | Mar 1, 2014 |
Hey guys,
We talk about:
- primitive texts ("facing the sea/lawn/swimming-pool"; "breathtaking view"; "single/double/kingsize bed", etc.)
- no terminology
- basic vocabulary hardly exceeding 300-400 words
- end users consulting the text for information that's unlikely to be distorted even in case of poor grammar or typos
- occasional search for correct translation of geographical names
- total volume of millions of words
A young colle... See more Hey guys,
We talk about:
- primitive texts ("facing the sea/lawn/swimming-pool"; "breathtaking view"; "single/double/kingsize bed", etc.)
- no terminology
- basic vocabulary hardly exceeding 300-400 words
- end users consulting the text for information that's unlikely to be distorted even in case of poor grammar or typos
- occasional search for correct translation of geographical names
- total volume of millions of words
A young colleague of mine translates for the site, and is quite happy. She says, she can easily does 5,000-7,000, sometimes up to 10,000 words daily without a headache (typing speed is probably the only thing that matters here), jobs are regular (actually as much as one can handle), and every now and then she declines "real" jobs where the the content is highly scientific or technical, and requitements for the overall quality are very high. It's money earned very easily indeed - which is not always the case for many other jobs.
Ask yourself: wearing the outsourcer's shoes (we talk about this outsourcer only), and knowing there are quite a lot of good translators in certain language combinations, what rating strategy would you adopt?
[Edited at 2014-03-01 08:24 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 18:54
Chinese to English
| Here's 2 cents. I want a vehicle | Mar 1, 2014 |
Hi, Preston!
You've made my argument for me, and for very similar reasons. I would just agree with Michael, though. To use your car analogy, you're right that there are models for every taste. But it often feels like certain clients are walking into a dealership with 20 dollars and saying "I want a vehicle". For 20 bucks, you can get a bike. A rusty, broken down bike. That ain't what we sell here, and it says that on the door... at a certain point, a client's ignorance becomes an in... See more Hi, Preston!
You've made my argument for me, and for very similar reasons. I would just agree with Michael, though. To use your car analogy, you're right that there are models for every taste. But it often feels like certain clients are walking into a dealership with 20 dollars and saying "I want a vehicle". For 20 bucks, you can get a bike. A rusty, broken down bike. That ain't what we sell here, and it says that on the door... at a certain point, a client's ignorance becomes an insult.
You are right, though, 林子大，什么鸟都有！ ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Speaking of faulty MT... | Mar 1, 2014 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Michael Marcoux wrote:
I recall reading a forum post by José Lamensdorf about a deceptively poor translation he proofread. The problem was not that it was a grammatical or lexical mess, but that it looked incredibly professional and well written- except that all the technical terms were wrong! If I remember correctly, it was a user manual for some piece of specialized equipment on an oil rig- whose misoperation could have cost lives. And that's the rub: to competently translate a technical text, you need a level of education and experience that in no case could justify those rates. Clarifying... I didn't proofread it. It was kindly provided as "reference material" for some additional translations I'd be doing for the same unit. As I read it, it became obvious that it was post-edited machine translation, possibly done without the original. The translation "engine" was often fooled into interpreting phrases as exactly the opposite. The editor simply fixed the writing style, so that it would sound and feel as written by a human being. My conclusion was that PEMT may be more dangerous than plain machine translation, because it leads the reader to believe that it is actually a professional translation.
When I type "принимай пятьсот миллиграмм" (take five-hundred milligrams) into google translate it spits out "take five milligrams" in English.
Statistical patterns be damned! When does anyone ever translate 500 as 5, anyways!? That's an accidental death waiting to happen right there...
(P.S. sorry for the mix up- I tried to find the tread and couldn't, and instead relied on my faulty memory.)
[Edited at 2014-03-03 02:56 GMT]
| | | | Linda Li
United States
Local time: 05:54
English to Chinese
[Edited at 2014-03-02 08:09 GMT]
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