| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: [1 2 3] > | Agencies aiming to win new accounts: Please pay your translation tests! Initiator des Themas: Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
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Dear colleagues and, nevertheless, friends:
Every now and then some agency customer of mine asks for a free translation test for some new or existing account. This kind of message is an interesting genre in our communications, I guess. It shows characteristics like:
- Praising your excellent work for them so far.
- Explaining the huge potential of some end customer.
- Asking you to (kindly) do a FREE (of course) translation test with very specific rules and ... See more Dear colleagues and, nevertheless, friends:
Every now and then some agency customer of mine asks for a free translation test for some new or existing account. This kind of message is an interesting genre in our communications, I guess. It shows characteristics like:
- Praising your excellent work for them so far.
- Explaining the huge potential of some end customer.
- Asking you to (kindly) do a FREE (of course) translation test with very specific rules and expectations (terminology, style, register, target audience, etc.)
- Mentioning that, if the end customer likes the test, there will be lots of work for everyone.
- More praising your excellent work and expressing their full confidence in the production of an excellent test.
- Stating a very firm deadline for the test.
However, the message never contains vital information, like:
- What kind of rate do they intend to pay you if the test is successful and work starts to pour in from the customer.
- Some expression of commitment to send all work your way first.
- An indication that you are their only resource taking the test (after all, they trust you so much, right?)
- An offer to pay (at least something) for the test.
Please, agencies out there: Of course we enjoy working for you, and are always willing to help you win new accounts, but, are we not worth the 40 or 50 euros a test would cost? Is 40 or 50 euros not a reasonable investment, in exchange for the big profits you expect from this new account when we help you win it and serve the customer in the months/years ahead?
Please, please pay tests, even if only a nominal figure as proof that you care about your vendors!
Greetings,
Tomás ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga 
Deutschland
Local time: 02:24
Mitglied (2009)
Englisch > Deutsch
+ ...
| Paying for tests | May 11, 2016 |
Well, thus far only one client has paid me for a test, not much, but at least he offered and then paid something for my time.
When it comes to agencies, I'm a little cautious (no disrespect intended here!). All it takes is to send out 50 or 80 "short and unpaid test" translations to 50 - 80 translators with the promise (and that is all that it actually is) you've mentioned here, et voilá, you have a perfectly translated document to send to your prospective customer.
Wh... See more Well, thus far only one client has paid me for a test, not much, but at least he offered and then paid something for my time.
When it comes to agencies, I'm a little cautious (no disrespect intended here!). All it takes is to send out 50 or 80 "short and unpaid test" translations to 50 - 80 translators with the promise (and that is all that it actually is) you've mentioned here, et voilá, you have a perfectly translated document to send to your prospective customer.
When an agency praises all your skills, your prositive attitude, your flexibility and the flawlessness of your previous translations, then why do all the good qualities suddenly disappear when payment for tests needs to be discussed? Where's this respect when it comes to asking you to do a project for them, yet expecting you to do it for free? There doesn't 't seem to be any, since they're expecting you to spend your time on their possible project with possible steady workflow in a someday possibly arriving future, and not even considering to ask them for a penny, because you're not a business that needs to generate income to pay your bills. So why should you be paid for a simple test? I'm sure they'd be shocked if you asked them for compensation - which again shows their respect for you and your work. Or do I just have a twisted opinion of what respect looks like? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | on that one point | May 11, 2016 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
- Explaining the huge potential of some end customer.
That is a nice benefit for them. Then they ought to be willing to make an investment by paying for the test translation. The fact that they may gain an end client does not affect me - it affects them.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 20:24
Spanisch > Englisch
+ ...
| Translation tests | May 11, 2016 |
Isn't it possible, at least in some cases, to determine that a translator is competent without the need for a test? For example, length of time in the industry, examples of previous projects, reviews and recommendations.
To test everyone indiscriminately seems inefficient to me. Especially since the majority of these tests are 1) scored by competing translators who don't what others to get their work from the agency; 2) scored by persons with far less experience than the person bei... See more Isn't it possible, at least in some cases, to determine that a translator is competent without the need for a test? For example, length of time in the industry, examples of previous projects, reviews and recommendations.
To test everyone indiscriminately seems inefficient to me. Especially since the majority of these tests are 1) scored by competing translators who don't what others to get their work from the agency; 2) scored by persons with far less experience than the person being tested; 3) taken from on-line bilingual sources that are easily found with an internet search); 4) can be completed by a paid third party.
I have often thought about setting up a translator testing company so that companies would have independent proof of competence.
[Edited at 2016-05-11 16:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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LegalTransform wrote:
Isn't it possible, at least in some cases, to determine that a translator is competent without the need for a test? For example, length of time in the industry, examples of previous projects, reviews and recommendations.
To be entirely cynical, from the agency's point of view, testing someone is probably one of the very few sure-fire ways to check that someone is who they say they are. Online profiles can be faked, translation samples may not belong to the translator, reviews can be faked as well. I'm not saying this happens as often as agencies think it does, my feeling is simply that in an unregulated profession such as ours, agencies may choose this approach as just another mandatory hoop to jump through. We of course can choose whether or not to do tests. I don't have a problem with them, personally, although it does depend who's asking. 
| | | | | They know you already! | May 11, 2016 |
Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:
To be entirely cynical, from the agency's point of view, testing someone is probably one of the very few sure-fire ways to check that someone is who they say they are.
My posting is more about agencies who know you really well already after using your services for many years.
When the agency is trying to win a new customer that requires one or more translation tests, is it really fair that we have to do the tests for free? We will do a perfectly nice test, but the customer might not like the style or some other feature that is valued by other customers. How come we have to bear the burden of the test ourselves, instead of the agency buying the translation as any other work?
| | | | | Known quality and other points of view | May 11, 2016 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
My posting is more about agencies who know you really well already after using your services for many years.
Since you have been working for them for years, by asking you to take the test they already lowered their risk quite a bit. The agency should be paying your full translation rate, because you are doing a project for them. Their project is a marketing project, they should have a budget for that, it should be part of their client acquisition costs.
When the agency is trying to win a new customer that requires one or more translation tests, is it really fair that we have to do the tests for free?
Of course, not. Nobody else in their sales department is working for free. By doing the test translation, you are part of their team working on client acquisition, and nobody is doing their part for free. All the others in the agency's office work on that project in their regular work hours, and getting paid their regular wages. So should you. Good agencies have the fiscal cushioning and proper budgeting in place to do this the right way. Kitchen table agencies, file-pusher brokers, not much.
Even from the agency's point of view, it is smarter to pay you fully for the test, because then they have no obligation to give you the project, they can even play bait and switch. I am not saying that is nice, or good for you, or ethical in any way, but that is one way to approach the situation. That way, if they win the account, but want to give the actual work to somebody else, they can do it and wash their hands (so to speak). They won't even have to tell you it was a test.
Katalin
| | | | Roni_S
Slowakei
Local time: 02:24
Slowakisch > Englisch
My main beef with free or even paid translation tests, and I’m obviously only speaking in terms of my language pair, is that the tests seem to be invariably evaluated by non-native speakers of my target language. I don’t mean to stir up any of the native/non-native sentiments, but I’ve been a listener, less of a speaker, of my source language all of my life and I have now lived in the country of my source language for many years, yet there is no way I would ever even think to evaluate some... See more My main beef with free or even paid translation tests, and I’m obviously only speaking in terms of my language pair, is that the tests seem to be invariably evaluated by non-native speakers of my target language. I don’t mean to stir up any of the native/non-native sentiments, but I’ve been a listener, less of a speaker, of my source language all of my life and I have now lived in the country of my source language for many years, yet there is no way I would ever even think to evaluate someone’s capabilities in what is my source language. Yet on the other hand, when I look at the English versions of the websites of most of the translation agencies in the country where I live and see that they haven’t even bothered to have the English at least checked by a native speaker, I frankly wouldn’t trust any of them with any even semi-important translation job into English.
I suppose what I’m saying is that test or no test, if it’s evaluated by a non-native speaker I can’t see where it would have any weight. Paid or not. ▲ Collapse
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Helena Chavarria
Spanien
Local time: 02:24
Mitglied (2011)
Spanisch > Englisch
+ ...
| I never get round to doing uppaid tests | May 12, 2016 |
I've got at least six test pieces waiting for me in my inbox.
Whenever I'm asked to do an unpaid test I politely let the person know that I'll do it when I have time, and I really think I'll do it, but that moment just never seems to arrive! If I ever have a spare couple of hours, I've got many other things I need, or want, to do: prepare my invoices, chase up slow payers, go for a walk, go the hairdresser, watch a film on TV, have a nap on the sofa, do the ironing, keep my retired... See more I've got at least six test pieces waiting for me in my inbox.
Whenever I'm asked to do an unpaid test I politely let the person know that I'll do it when I have time, and I really think I'll do it, but that moment just never seems to arrive! If I ever have a spare couple of hours, I've got many other things I need, or want, to do: prepare my invoices, chase up slow payers, go for a walk, go the hairdresser, watch a film on TV, have a nap on the sofa, do the ironing, keep my retired husband company, water the plants, etc. The list is endless!
However, a couple of weeks ago I was asked to do a paid test and I did it a couple of days later. I just treated it like a normal assignment. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mohd Hamzah
Malaysia
Local time: 08:24
Mitglied
Englisch > Malaiisch
+ ...
| as for my experience | May 12, 2016 |
1. First they sent you email telling that they have available job multinational company for their... around x00,000 words.
2. Then they asked you to do the test prior to give the project to you.
3. After agreed and sent the test for your evaluation, CONGRATULATION, you are passed, please sign this and that and sign up in our portal.
4. After that, no news at all only a couple or words, thank you....
If it happened a few times, then that's ok, b... See more 1. First they sent you email telling that they have available job multinational company for their... around x00,000 words.
2. Then they asked you to do the test prior to give the project to you.
3. After agreed and sent the test for your evaluation, CONGRATULATION, you are passed, please sign this and that and sign up in our portal.
4. After that, no news at all only a couple or words, thank you....
If it happened a few times, then that's ok, but if it is prolonging, normal human being of course they may retaliate. ▲ Collapse
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elena Chavarria wrote:
Whenever I'm asked to do an unpaid test I politely let the person know that I'll do it when I have time, and I really think I'll do it, but that moment just never seems to arrive!
Makes total sense! I think I will apply that same approach from now on.
| | | | | makes no sense to me | May 12, 2016 |
I wouldn't have thought agencies would do that. While it seems significantly less bizarre than the recently mentioned deletion of spaces to reduce word counts, I just wouldn't have thought anyone would be misguided enough to come up with that idea.
Do they also ask you to pay a quarterly fee to contribute to their advertising budget or general overhead for utilities, rent, etc.? After all, they won't be able to send you any work if they don't have any clients or electricity ...
... See more I wouldn't have thought agencies would do that. While it seems significantly less bizarre than the recently mentioned deletion of spaces to reduce word counts, I just wouldn't have thought anyone would be misguided enough to come up with that idea.
Do they also ask you to pay a quarterly fee to contribute to their advertising budget or general overhead for utilities, rent, etc.? After all, they won't be able to send you any work if they don't have any clients or electricity ...
These aren't test translations from the freelancer's point of view, they are perfectly normal projects. You're not being tested (by the agency), the agency is being tested (by a potential client). If you tell explain that, I would think there's a good chance that the agency will invest in your work, because they want to get the client. And if they don't, then all you've lost is the opportunity to spend your valuable time working for free. Saying no or "I don't have time" (if that makes more sense under the circumstances) seems like a win-win situation for you. ▲ Collapse
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| Adding to the choir | May 12, 2016 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
When the agency is trying to win a new customer that requires one or more translation tests, is it really fair that we have to do the tests for free?
No, it is very unfair, and I share other contributors' feelings about it.
From my experience, long-standing agency customers offer to pay tests to win a potential customer. It may even be part of the agency selling strategy, for which I have no say, in order to get an edge over the competition. I don't think I've ever been asked for a free free test when I've already been thoroughly assessed and cleared by the requesting agency.
However, I am always informed that it is a test, which I understand as a request for extra care (new in-house terminology to find, background work on the end customer/brand...). Would I do that for free? I doubt it.
Agencies who require free tests in common languages may have in-house translators, but without the specialisation required (and what's specialisation if not something you sell), or prefer that their in-house translators work on paid work!
And how can the agency commit to channel all work to you if the customer is in a hurry, requiring that several translators work concurrently? If you're busy when the customer is ready? If you're on holiday? To solve a commitment they cannot make, agencies should pay the test like any other purchasing order and be free to assign whatever work to whoever is available at the time.
And your doing the test for free or not, the agency, if sensible, will give priority to you because they know their customer liked the test. And that customer may even have praised your piece compared to other tests they received from other agencies. This incentive for free work is therefore not valid.
Of course, the customer can ask because the customer is king. But the customer will not necessarily get. Accepting to do free tests from established agency customers means you've thought about consequences:
- If I don't do the test for free, the agency will stop sending me work/decrease my workload.
- If I don't do the test for free, others will and I will lose an opportunity to get more work from that agency.
- If I don't do the test for free, it will look rude/unprofessional/mean, even ungrateful towards the customer in a sort of dog/owner relationship.
But what is mean if not asking people to work for free? If they precisely ask you for a test, don't you think it's for a reason? Are you so easily replaceable for subsequent work in your specialties?
Let's not sell ourselves cheap. Our skills are worth money and should be charged accordingly.
Philippe
P.S. The matter is different when you invest time to win new customers. You have all cards in hand to know how far you can go, what incentives you should use and how relevant a potential new customer would be to your business.
| | | | | No pay, no test | May 12, 2016 |
This has been my strategy for the past several years.
I got sick and tired of agencies asking me to do free tests. In fact, I was inquired to do one yesterday, and when I told them that I don't do free tests and my usual rate, they posted the job on the Proz Connect Jobs which can be seen on the very main page of Proz (http:www.proz.com).
In the past, I think I have been too nice to agencies taking tests for free, and all I got was literally nothing: no feedback, no job... See more This has been my strategy for the past several years.
I got sick and tired of agencies asking me to do free tests. In fact, I was inquired to do one yesterday, and when I told them that I don't do free tests and my usual rate, they posted the job on the Proz Connect Jobs which can be seen on the very main page of Proz (http:www.proz.com).
In the past, I think I have been too nice to agencies taking tests for free, and all I got was literally nothing: no feedback, no job, a few thank yous for completing the test but never heard from them again. And when I inquire them what happened to the submitted tests, their answers were "our client hasn't given us the go-ahead yet", or "they need some more time to consider". And silence again.
Therefore, I decided to charge for all trials and test translations, regardless of the length according to the rate I charge normally for translation. By doing this, even if the client didn't come back with any feedback, I would still get my money and consider this as a small job and not a test translation. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The thread is about your EXISTING agency customers | May 12, 2016 |
Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
...In the past, I think I have been too nice to agencies taking tests for free, and all I got was literally nothing: no feedback, no job, a few thank yous for completing the test but never heard from them again. And when I inquire them what happened to the submitted tests, their answers were "our client hasn't given us the go-ahead yet", or "they need some more time to consider". And silence again.
But I suppose you don't do free tests for your existing customers either.
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