| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Charge to Review Someone Else's Translation Thread poster: bborthayre
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Laureana Pavon 
Uruguay
Local time: 06:10
Member (2007)
English to Spanish
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MODERATOR | Mexico/US/Wherever | Aug 6, 2010 |
I think where the proofreader and the translator live have no bearing at all on what your rates should be.
I don't even understand why you even mentioned that the translator was Mexican. You're trying to set your rates, so the only thing that should matter is the quality of the translation you have to review, not the country in which the translator is based.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 11:10
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
bborthayre wrote:
...they have asked me to review the translation.
I assume that they want you to proofread/edit the entire text, so that the end-result is virtually error-free and reads like a document that will benefit the client.
I charge fifteen to twenty five cents a word for translation and my understanding is that reviews are charged by the hour...is that accurate?
Hourly is the fairest to the revisionist, yes, and to the client probably also, because you can't be certain whether there are "easy" or "difficult" patches somewhere in the middle of the file that might need much less or much more work.
However, some clients have a limited budget (though limited does not necessarily mean small), and those clients may prefer to pay for the revision per word, because then the final amount is known up-front. Some of my own clients don't pay per word, but they do limit the number of hours in advance (and most of those usually pay for the maximum alotted time anyway, without asking me how many hours it took me).
The problem with charging per word for revision (and the client should be made aware of this) is that the revisionist can't spend too much time on the revision, so the revised version won't be "virtually error-free" but only "as error-free as one can make it within the time constraints".
A rates survey elsewhere on the internet (forum rules here prohibit me from telling you where) shows that out of 5000 English-Spanish translators, almost none charge more than USD 60 per hour for hourly jobs, and the majority charge between USD 20 and USD 35 per hour... which is a lot lower than your consulting rate.
A general rule of thumb is that revision per word costs 1/4 to 1/3 of the translation cost per word. So if you charge 15-25c per word for translation, you can charge 5-8c per word for the revision, if you want to charge per word for it.
If so, how do you calculate how much time it will take to review?
I agree with what other people have said here about how many words you can expect to do in an hour if the translation was done professionally, namely between 750 and 1250 words per hour. However, this is what you'd be able to do if you do revision regularly. Unless you are familiar with the ins and outs of revision (and optimising time spent doing a revision) it may take you even longer.
Do you then charge for changes or do you just point out the errors?
I think the days of simply pointing out the errors are over, unless the client provides the translator with hard-copy only, or if there is such an arrangement between the client and the revisionist. In the modern age, a revisionist not only checks for errors but also corrects them. Find out whether your client wants you to use Track Changes (this may be useful if the revision will go back to the original translator for comments).
[Edited at 2010-08-06 17:22 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 11:10
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| @Lingua 5B (slightly off-topic) | Aug 6, 2010 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
What they usually ask you is to spot the errors, categorize them, elaborate them, qualify the severity of error, paraphrase them and then write a final report. And all this commonly for the price of $ 0.02 p/sw.
This often happens if the client has some or other silly ISO standard to comply with which requires a certain quality assurance system that was designed by someone who thinks that translation is robotic and that one can give points of severity to them to arrive at a final mark which is either PASS or FAIL. I agree that these are often very low paid (somehow the client always believes that copy/pasting the error (source, target and updated target) into a spreadsheet takes no time at all and that writing a detailed explanation and deciding on a severity grade can't possibly take more than 20 seconds). I rarely accept such jobs these days.
However, this does not seem to be the situation with Blaire (if I read her post correctly), so for her "revision" would mean "read it, correct it, and send it" without having to fill in weird error classification reports.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 11:10
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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| What does revision entail? | Aug 6, 2010 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
However, this does not seem to be the situation with Blaire (if I read her post correctly), so for her "revision" would mean "read it, correct it, and send it" without having to fill in weird error classification reports.
Nonetheless, revision must be supported with a series of quality arguments, otherwise it is not a revision.
Unless it's a translation test you are revising, the agencies usually ask you to revise a text about which they had got plenty of quality-related complaints, usually by target readers or direct client. This is particularly why the revision must be detailed and elaborated ( so that the direct client has illustrations and clarifications).
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| Reply to Laureana Pavon | Aug 6, 2010 |
As I have explained previously, where the translator is based does indeed have a bearing since there are U.S companies who will use translators in Mexico in order to avoid paying higher rates that U.S translators charge. I am Mexican. My family is from Mexico. My company works with businesses trying to tap into the Hispanic and Latin American market and I can give you countless examples of those who have shared with me that they chose a translator in Mexico because they were less expensive. <... See more As I have explained previously, where the translator is based does indeed have a bearing since there are U.S companies who will use translators in Mexico in order to avoid paying higher rates that U.S translators charge. I am Mexican. My family is from Mexico. My company works with businesses trying to tap into the Hispanic and Latin American market and I can give you countless examples of those who have shared with me that they chose a translator in Mexico because they were less expensive.
Again, as I have explained, this does not apply to ALL translators in Mexico. But if you search Elance for translators offering services, you will find that many in Mexico are charging three to four cents a word. This is due to the economic situation among our people. As a Mexican American and a Hispanic advocate with a degree in Hispanic Marketing and Communications, my remarks are based on personal and professional experience. I have been involved a contributer to research studies at Florida State University, The Pew Hispanic Center and National Council of La Raza documenting pay disparities in the Hispanic population. Our most recent study (which you can find online at the Thomas Rivera Policy Institute)documents the use of Mexican contractors by U.S businesses at rates below poverty level in the United States.
So my comments are based both on research and personal experience that companies who use take advantage of cheap contract labor in Mexico can express "sticker shock" when being presented with fair and standard pay rates of those with the same qualificationsn in the United States. ▲ Collapse
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I am not sure what you are referring to about Nichole being "hounded off the site". Nichole's post was removed by the moderator because she employed namecalling and also called me a liar when I said I charged fifteen to twenty five cents a word. Her response stated "I don't believe you. You claim you are charging agencies 25 cents / word, yet you don't know how to charge by the hour. Come on Get Real."
Perhaps you dont consider that offensive but apparently the forum moderator did. A... See more I am not sure what you are referring to about Nichole being "hounded off the site". Nichole's post was removed by the moderator because she employed namecalling and also called me a liar when I said I charged fifteen to twenty five cents a word. Her response stated "I don't believe you. You claim you are charging agencies 25 cents / word, yet you don't know how to charge by the hour. Come on Get Real."
Perhaps you dont consider that offensive but apparently the forum moderator did. And judging by the emails I received from other members, she was not the only one. I certainly found it to be rude and unprofessional at best.
I was not aware that this was a closed community for only seasoned professionals. I was under the impression that anyone could come and ask questions without being called names or attacked. It would seem to be that this would be an ideal place for beginners who could call upon those more experienced for assistance. I find your words about "Nichole feeling that a simply felt that a hastily organised, practically bare and low-cred "New User" profile was horning in on the game" rather sad since everyone here started somewhere and hopefully were not treated this way. I did not come here to start drama or to be attacked or insulted simply because I dont have "credibility" as a new user in someone's eyes.
Again, I appreciate the assistance from those of you willing to offer it but I think I will bow out at this point as perhaps I dont have the level of experience necessary to be given the benefit of the doubt as a new poster. ▲ Collapse
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Thank you for such a well thought out reply. I am a member of ATA and my company offers translation only to ensure that our collateral is created by certified translators. We dont focus on translation as a stand alone service. This particular client however has products that have already been translated and a review is necessary to ensure that the product is viable for our marketing campaign. So you are accurate when stating that "However, this does not seem to be the situation with Blaire (... See more Thank you for such a well thought out reply. I am a member of ATA and my company offers translation only to ensure that our collateral is created by certified translators. We dont focus on translation as a stand alone service. This particular client however has products that have already been translated and a review is necessary to ensure that the product is viable for our marketing campaign. So you are accurate when stating that "However, this does not seem to be the situation with Blaire (if I read her post correctly), so for her "revision" would mean "read it, correct it, and send it" without having to fill in weird error classification reports."
I also took your advice and asked the client about the "Track Changes" option and they are not interested in this. Your post contained great examples and specifics, much food for thought. Again, thanks for your input as this is a new type of project and not one we are likely to see again just due to the general nature of our work.
Blaire
[Edited at 2010-08-06 23:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dawn Montague
United States
Local time: 05:10
German to English
+ ...
| Hope you'll change your mind | Aug 7, 2010 |
bborthayre wrote:
Again, I appreciate the assistance from those of you willing to offer it but I think I will bow out at this point as perhaps I dont have the level of experience necessary to be given the benefit of the doubt as a new poster.
So sorry you feel that way - although I can't blame you. It sounds like you actually have some valuable experience you could share with others, especially when it comes to adding value to your services.
Everybody has a first post, and your's was a legitimate question. It's actually one that seasoned professionals will sometimes discuss at great length, over and over again (word count vs. hours, how much to charge, the pitfalls of accepting a job and then having to "retranslate").
Some seem to think the agency game is the only one around, and then that all agencies pay the same low rates. It's difficult for people, in general, to look beyond their own experience and find out what else is out there.
And then others didn't read your post very well (you never said you worked for agencies). Sigh...
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| Thank you Dawn | Aug 7, 2010 |
Your words go a long way in making me feel that my first impression of the purpose of this forum was an accurate one. After reading what you had to say I think it would be a mistake on my part to allow two or three people to turn me away from a site with very valuable feedback. Since translation is not the focus of my company services, I certainly want to ensure that I stay abreast of ethics and best practices for the occasions when we are faced with projects such as this. From the outset, th... See more Your words go a long way in making me feel that my first impression of the purpose of this forum was an accurate one. After reading what you had to say I think it would be a mistake on my part to allow two or three people to turn me away from a site with very valuable feedback. Since translation is not the focus of my company services, I certainly want to ensure that I stay abreast of ethics and best practices for the occasions when we are faced with projects such as this. From the outset, this type of forum community seems to offer the benefit of so many serious professionals being able to offer opinions and guidance. Apparently I was just unlucky enough to incur the disdain and wrath of a select few who feel that this is somehow "their" territory and new users shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. Obviously this is not the mentality of everyone here and I should not judge the entire forum by the voices of a vocal minority. Thanks again. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | This site is definitely for beginners too | Aug 7, 2010 |
bborthayre wrote:
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I was not aware that this was a closed community for only seasoned professionals. I was under the impression that anyone could come and ask questions without being called names or attacked.
...
Again, I appreciate the assistance from those of you willing to offer it but I think I will bow out at this point as perhaps I dont have the level of experience necessary to be given the benefit of the doubt as a new poster.
It is not a closed community for seasoned professionals. As we are getting somewhat off topic in this particular thread, it may be a good time to end it, but please do not feel unwelcome on the site as a whole, and please come back to share problems and experience another time.
Others in the same position benefit from the discussions and exchanges of ideas (even seasoned professionals...) and fresh points of view contributed by beginners.
See you around!
[Edited at 2010-08-07 11:15 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 11:10
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| What the word "revision" means | Aug 7, 2010 |
Lingua 5B wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
...so for her "revision" would mean "read it, correct it, and send it" without having to fill in weird error classification reports. Nonetheless, revision must be supported with a series of quality arguments, otherwise it is not a revision.
A great number of clients use the word "revision" to mean either "proofreading" or "editing", and does not attach a specific meaning to it which of necessity includes giving arguments for one's decisions. It is only when a revision client asks for explanations (e.g. in a spreadsheet) that the word "revision" takes on this special meaning which includes the giving of arguments.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 11:10
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| On bowing out and being hounded | Aug 7, 2010 |
bborthayre wrote:
Again, I appreciate the assistance from those of you willing to offer it but I think I will bow out at this point as perhaps I dont have the level of experience necessary to be given the benefit of the doubt as a new poster.
It is unfortunate that your post contained wording and phrasing which trigged knee-jerk reactions from some members who ride hobby horses about various issues that you can't possibly have known about. You'll find that happening in all online forums, I'm afraid. So have a thick skin, and keep participating.
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Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 02:10
English to German
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In memoriam | Could you please refrain from talking about me behind my back? | Aug 7, 2010 |
bborthayre wrote:
I am not sure what you are referring to about Nichole being "hounded off the site". Nichole's post was removed by the moderator because she employed namecalling and also called me a liar when I said I charged fifteen to twenty five cents a word. Her response stated "I don't believe you. You claim you are charging agencies 25 cents / word, yet you don't know how to charge by the hour. Come on Get Real."
Perhaps you dont consider that offensive but apparently the forum moderator did. And judging by the emails I received from other members, she was not the only one. I certainly found it to be rude and unprofessional at best.
I was not aware that this was a closed community for only seasoned professionals. I was under the impression that anyone could come and ask questions without being called names or attacked. It would seem to be that this would be an ideal place for beginners who could call upon those more experienced for assistance. I find your words about "Nichole feeling that a simply felt that a hastily organised, practically bare and low-cred "New User" profile was horning in on the game" rather sad since everyone here started somewhere and hopefully were not treated this way. I did not come here to start drama or to be attacked or insulted simply because I dont have "credibility" as a new user in someone's eyes.
Sorry, I didn't happen to be banned from this forum, I had a tough deadline.
My name is "Nicole" BTW, not "Nichole". That's a typo.
I never called you a liar.
Do you wish me to report this gem to a moderator for a change?
| | | | | Samuel and Christine | Aug 7, 2010 |
Yes, I concur, time to put this to rest...and right or wrong, thicker skin is certainly a necessity for online interactions. It takes two to tango so simply ignoring any furhter invitations to get caught up in back and forth is the wisest course of action. There are so many other productive ways to spend time! Thanks to the advice and input from many experienced professionals, I was able to get a firm grasp on the nuts and bolts of this kind of project so it was worthwhile in spite of the det... See more Yes, I concur, time to put this to rest...and right or wrong, thicker skin is certainly a necessity for online interactions. It takes two to tango so simply ignoring any furhter invitations to get caught up in back and forth is the wisest course of action. There are so many other productive ways to spend time! Thanks to the advice and input from many experienced professionals, I was able to get a firm grasp on the nuts and bolts of this kind of project so it was worthwhile in spite of the detours.
Blaire ▲ Collapse
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