| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Aiming for native level in your acquired language Thread poster: Guofei_LIN
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TonyTK
German to English
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Tom in London wrote:
I spent more than 20 years living permanently in Italy, working, taking my university degree, and doing everything else you can do in 20 years (and without speaking English to anyone).
My Italian friends are complimentary about my Italian and they tell me I do not speak it with a foreign accent.
So I think I am in a position to say that it is IMPOSSIBLE to reach "native level" in my acquired language. No matter how comfortable you are in an acquired language, it will always catch you out.
Same here, just a different country and a bit longer. After studying in the UK and Germany, working in the UK, then moving to Germany permanently, I still can't say "Füße" without my wife laughing - which is (naturally) always in the company of others as I only speak English to the family. Sounding "native" also depends on who's listening. Over the years, a couple of people have told me I must be German (possibly just being nice), while others have asked me if I'm from England after I've basically just said "Hi, ich bin Tony". Some people just look at me weirdly, but that could also be my personality.
(In a similar vein: when I'm in the UK, anyone south of Birmingham instantly says I'm from Manchester and starts making jokes about pies. When I'm in Manchester, they tell me I must be from the south. It wasn't until I started doing English singalongs with my German granddaughter that I realised what a rough accent I've got. Poor kid.)
| | | | Daniel Frisano 
Italy
Local time: 16:26
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
As an Italian native, after living for 7 or 8 years in Spain together with my Spanish then-girlfriend, and interacting almost exclusively with Spanish natives, I was regularly mistaken for a native.
I lived in the southeast and for some reason everyone assumed I was from the north of the country, perhaps because of an involuntary accent or my somatic type that is not exactly Mediterranean.
I remember several instances of checking in at some hotel and the employee being... See more As an Italian native, after living for 7 or 8 years in Spain together with my Spanish then-girlfriend, and interacting almost exclusively with Spanish natives, I was regularly mistaken for a native.
I lived in the southeast and for some reason everyone assumed I was from the north of the country, perhaps because of an involuntary accent or my somatic type that is not exactly Mediterranean.
I remember several instances of checking in at some hotel and the employee being genuinely surprised when they saw that my passport was Italian.
So, yes, it can be done, although I'll be the first to admit that Italian-to-Spanish is kind of a best-case scenario.
You need to pay attention to every tiny detail though. I still need to remind myself that Spanish G before A/O/U is gutturalized rather than velar, D is often fricative rather than occlusive, and other such subtleties.
Reading out loud and listening to your voice helps immensely. So does listening to the radio and mimicking the announcers.
[Edited at 2022-03-15 14:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Depends what one means by 'native' | Mar 15, 2022 |
From the point of view of fluency of speech/reading/understanding, 'near-native' level can surely be reached. I would agree one may be mistaken for a 'native' in a brief/simple context (like checking into a hotel). Especially in related languages. From the point of view of thousands of subtle details like cultural realities, allusions to books/movies (sometimes even old TV ads), certain accents, 'native' proficiency is impossible.
| | | | Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 16:26
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
Evgeny Sidorenko wrote:
From the point of view of thousands of subtle details like cultural realities, allusions to books/movies (sometimes even old TV ads), certain accents, 'native' proficiency is impossible.
Then I'm not native in my native language either. On the rare occasions that I happen to be at someone's place with the TV on, I don't get half of what's going on.
And if TV or movies are your standard, of course there's no hope of getting even close to "nativeness". It goes way, way deeper.
It entails relinquishing one's roots in the first place (you don't need any national roots in terms of language proficiency, the examples are countless). When you start thinking effortlessly in several languages and switching seamlessly between them, that's a good indicator you're on the right track.
Incidentally, life becomes infinitely easier when translating. It becomes more like transcribing.
[Edited at 2022-03-16 10:26 GMT]
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Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 16:26
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
Nobody's native in anything anymore.
I just ordered a couple of short translations IT>EN and IT>FR, and both sound like DeepL and GoogleTrans' degenerate offspring.
We've all (well, some of us) slowly but surely sunk beneath machine translation level. And we still pretend we're not paid enough?
All right, enough with the off-topic. Cheers.
[Edited at 2022-03-16 12:11 GMT]
| | | | William Yang
China
Local time: 22:26
Member (2021)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Different human individual has his/her unique cultural context for other to explore | Mar 16, 2022 |
and that's the language plus according your theory.
Evgeny Sidorenko wrote:
From the point of view of fluency of speech/reading/understanding, 'near-native' level can surely be reached. I would agree one may be mistaken for a 'native' in a brief/simple context (like checking into a hotel). Especially in related languages. From the point of view of thousands of subtle details like cultural realities, allusions to books/movies (sometimes even old TV ads), certain accents, 'native' proficiency is impossible.
| | | | Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 15:26
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
| An experience | Mar 16, 2022 |
I used to chat in one specific social networking group, the chat there is about every day life isues, from A to Z. For months of my participation, I had been taken for a native. And only when we started meeting alive, people realized that I am "from somewhere". Hum. What is my level, then?
In general, I have referred several times already here in the forums to the discrepancy between the native level as per overall perception and native-like understanding, capability to express oneself in ... See more I used to chat in one specific social networking group, the chat there is about every day life isues, from A to Z. For months of my participation, I had been taken for a native. And only when we started meeting alive, people realized that I am "from somewhere". Hum. What is my level, then?
In general, I have referred several times already here in the forums to the discrepancy between the native level as per overall perception and native-like understanding, capability to express oneself in a language - the latter two relevant to translators. For example, I periodically translate from French bylaws, lawsuits, various corporate documentation - with terminology unfamiliar to many natives - but I would be barely able to order a cake in a cafe in France.
Thus, I think, the language level indication in our profiles do not reflect our real capability to translate. But this might be off topic here, so let it stay for the next time. ▲ Collapse
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