Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
visite libre
English translation:
self-guided tour
Added to glossary by
David BUICK
Nov 13, 2008 09:39
15 yrs ago
9 viewers *
French term
Reactive, reliable, win/win service
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English to French
visite libre
French to English
Marketing
Tourism & Travel
Help! How does one best advertise a "visite libre" as opposed to a "visite guidée" in English??
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Nov 13, 2008 09:41: writeaway changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Marketing"
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
Non-PRO (1): writeaway
When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.
How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:
An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)
A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).
Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.
When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.
* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.
Proposed translations
+12
2 mins
Selected
self-guided tour
Self-guided tour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A self-guided tour is where one navigates a route himself as opposed to an escorted tour where a tour guide person directs the route, times, information, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-guided_tour - 20k - Cached - Similar pages
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2008-11-13 10:04:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I agree with Graham that it is quite ghastly, but that is what many organizations choose to use (I work with a lot of museums, and this is indeed the term they use).
Of course, working around it is another viable option, but without more context it is difficult to give you any suggestions on how to go about doing so. :-)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-11-13 21:12:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Again, I agree with all the comments that this is not a pretty term, and I *totally* understand if you go with another solution (and even encourage you to do so ;-), but I do feel it important to point out that this is not simply a matter of badly translated sites.
I had a background in museum work prior to becoming a translator, and I can assure you that countless English-language museums in Canada, the US and UK use this term, as unfortunate as it may seem.
Here, for example, is a page on self-guided programs from the Royal Ontario Museum
http://www.rom.on.ca/schools/selfguided.php
or the Philidelphia Museum of Art
http://www.philamuseum.org/calendarEvents/31-481-331.html
or the Harvard Museum of Natural History
http://www.hmnh.harvard.edu/self-guided_visits/self-guided_v...
and the list goes on...
A self-guided tour is where one navigates a route himself as opposed to an escorted tour where a tour guide person directs the route, times, information, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-guided_tour - 20k - Cached - Similar pages
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2008-11-13 10:04:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I agree with Graham that it is quite ghastly, but that is what many organizations choose to use (I work with a lot of museums, and this is indeed the term they use).
Of course, working around it is another viable option, but without more context it is difficult to give you any suggestions on how to go about doing so. :-)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-11-13 21:12:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Again, I agree with all the comments that this is not a pretty term, and I *totally* understand if you go with another solution (and even encourage you to do so ;-), but I do feel it important to point out that this is not simply a matter of badly translated sites.
I had a background in museum work prior to becoming a translator, and I can assure you that countless English-language museums in Canada, the US and UK use this term, as unfortunate as it may seem.
Here, for example, is a page on self-guided programs from the Royal Ontario Museum
http://www.rom.on.ca/schools/selfguided.php
or the Philidelphia Museum of Art
http://www.philamuseum.org/calendarEvents/31-481-331.html
or the Harvard Museum of Natural History
http://www.hmnh.harvard.edu/self-guided_visits/self-guided_v...
and the list goes on...
Note from asker:
| I suppose if that's what it is, that's what it is, even if the idea of guiding oneself sounds like a contradiction in terms to me...! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
writeaway
: yup, all over the www or self-guided visit /if that's what museums use, why fight it. A museum the size of the Louvre would be a tour, yes.
1 min
|
|
thanks Writeaway
|
|
| agree |
Emma Paulay
: Wasn't sure this was OK for museums etc. but it's good enough for the Louvre http://www.louvre.fr/llv/activite/detail_parcours.jsp?CONTEN...<>cnt_id=10134198674098115&CURRENT_LLV_PARCOURS<>cnt_id=10134198674098115&bmLocale=en
5 mins
|
|
As a member of the Louvre translation team, I just wanted to defend myself by saying that alas we are given a glossary that we have to follow strictly, and that I am fighting hard to get ghastly expressions and translations removed. A long uphill battle!
|
|
| agree |
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
5 mins
|
|
thanks Beatriz
|
|
| agree |
Rimas Balsys
6 mins
|
|
thanks Rimas
|
|
| agree |
lundy
8 mins
|
|
thanks lundy
|
|
| agree |
Graham macLachlan
: however ghastly it may be as a term
13 mins
|
|
fully agree, but please see my added note
|
|
| agree |
Anthony Lines (X)
: As in "entrée libre".
17 mins
|
|
hmm, don't think it's quite the same thing
|
|
| agree |
Estelle Demontrond-Box
1 hr
|
|
thanks Estelle
|
|
| agree |
Sandra Mouton
1 hr
|
|
thanks Sandra
|
|
| agree |
Gacela20
5 hrs
|
|
thanks Gacela20
|
|
| agree |
Julie Barber
: Agree with Graham - it's atroce
6 hrs
|
|
agree, too, but as lingo_montreal points out below, and I show in a few of many reliable refs, the term is definitely entrenched in English museum-speak
|
|
| agree |
lingo_montreal
: This term is so entrenched internationally, and sums up the "guideless" aspect of the visit quite succinctly. I'd say stick with it and move on; there are other, more important, linguistic battles to fight!
1 day 18 hrs
|
|
I agree lingo, as I show in a few very reliable English museum sites, the term is definitely entrenched, and I tend to agree that we may need to concentrate our efforts on ickier linguistic issues :-)
|
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "For the record, after this fascinating exchange I think I'm going to revert to "go-as-you-please" in the job in hand, and hope for overturning the ghastly phrase is born, but as FF says, this is clearly the 'entrenched' answer. Many thanks to all!"
+6
13 mins
subversive opinion that should probably be ignored
I think "self-guided tour" is ghastly even though it is certainly used by many organizations. If I can, I try to focus on the guidebook or the audioguide which leads to the enlightened condition of self-guidedness...
Note from asker:
| great minds clearly think alike :) |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Vicky James
: Get round it if you can.
11 mins
|
|
... resign yourself to the inevitable if you can't, thanks
|
|
| agree |
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
12 mins
|
|
thanks
|
|
| agree |
polyglot45
: However widely it is bandied about websites, self-guided is a very "unnatural" expression - I suspect context is all and there is no cut-and-paste solution
12 mins
|
|
yes, unnatural
|
|
| agree |
Emma Paulay
: Should definitely not be ignored.//And while we're about it, could someone ban the use of "trail" for "parcours" cf The Louvre link? Ugh! Can't stand it!
13 mins
|
|
the revolution is here, man the barricades!
|
|
| agree |
Mark Nathan
: and see comment on Andrew's suggestion // in any case I think we should fight against self-guided - sounds like a missile. Only marginally less ridiculous than "self-propelled".
2 hrs
|
|
yes but there's no added value in "entry" whereas "entry plus free audioguide" is immediately more attractive//:-))
|
|
| agree |
Silvia Brandon-Pérez
: I always go for the subversive, if available. I like Mary Carroll's suggestion of self-paced tour...
1 day 1 hr
|
-1
16 mins
Andrew Mason
France
France
Native in English
Specializes in field
France
Pharma, scientific, business translation
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Free Entry
I think this suggestion avoids the awkwardness of the others, and is probably what is meant, especially if it is a free-standing phrase. But it does depend on the context and how it fits.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Emma Paulay
: I doubt this is what it means. In many museums, you pay an entrance fee and then you're free to visit as you please.
7 mins
|
| disagree |
Sandra Mouton
: I agree with Emma. You pay for a 'visite libre' even if less than for a 'visite guidée'
1 hr
|
| neutral |
Mark Nathan
: But perhaps you simply use "entry" or admission ; e.g. entry 6€, guided tour 12€.
2 hrs
|
25 mins
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Spain
Spain
Works in field
Spain
Golf, Literature and Religion Specialist
Native in: Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, French to Spanish, Spanish
non-guided visit
Whitney Museum Group Visit Information - [ Traducir esta página ]
Ninth through twelfth grade classes, University students and adults or seniors may schedule a non-guided visit to the Whitney. Groups arrive at the Museum ...
www.whitney.org/www/information/group.jsp - 22k - E
Penshurst Places and Gardens - Group Visits -
Here you will receive a non-guided visit to the house and gardens followed by a traditional cream tea. To make a booking call: 01622 763936 (This offer ...
www.penshurstplace.com/group-visits.html - 21k
Royal Palace description page -
$6.40 USD) \ Non-Guided visit = 1000 pesetas./6.01 Euros (approx. $5.50 USD). ... $4.50 USD) \ Non-Guided visit = 850 pesetas./5.11 Euros (approx. ...
www.multimadrid.com/descrips/sites/palacioreal.htm - 20k -
Hermione, freedom’s frigate - Introduction - Visit the site - Rates -
Non-guided visit of the construction site of Hermione :. Free for children under 8 ... Non-guided visit twinned with the visit of the Corderie Royale : ...
www.hermione.com/en/visit-the-site/rates/ - 10k
Ninth through twelfth grade classes, University students and adults or seniors may schedule a non-guided visit to the Whitney. Groups arrive at the Museum ...
www.whitney.org/www/information/group.jsp - 22k - E
Penshurst Places and Gardens - Group Visits -
Here you will receive a non-guided visit to the house and gardens followed by a traditional cream tea. To make a booking call: 01622 763936 (This offer ...
www.penshurstplace.com/group-visits.html - 21k
Royal Palace description page -
$6.40 USD) \ Non-Guided visit = 1000 pesetas./6.01 Euros (approx. $5.50 USD). ... $4.50 USD) \ Non-Guided visit = 850 pesetas./5.11 Euros (approx. ...
www.multimadrid.com/descrips/sites/palacioreal.htm - 20k -
Hermione, freedom’s frigate - Introduction - Visit the site - Rates -
Non-guided visit of the construction site of Hermione :. Free for children under 8 ... Non-guided visit twinned with the visit of the Corderie Royale : ...
www.hermione.com/en/visit-the-site/rates/ - 10k
+2
25 mins
Claire Cox
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
French & German Technical Translations
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
28
unescorted tour
is another option. I must admit that I don't like self-guided either, though you do see it frequently!
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: but I think this is used more for trips than for museum visits
6 mins
|
| agree |
Charlie Bavington
: with you every step of the way. Or rather not, or course, if you see what I mean :-)
59 mins
|
|
Thanks Charlie!
|
|
| agree |
Catherine Gilsenan
13 hrs
|
4 hrs
Entrance/Entry
as opposed to 'Entrance/Entry + guided tour'. Mark (see his answer to Andrew's suggestion) and I are thinking along the same lines.
+1
6 hrs
Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
Thorough, knowledgeable and resourceful
Native in: English (Variant: UK)
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, Italian to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
32
unguided visit
Groups are welcome in the Museum, but advance booking is essential for all group visits, whether you are self-guided or taking part in one of our activities....
When calling to make a booking, be prepared with the following information:
* Name, address and telephone number of the school/organization.
* Contact person at the school.
* Preferred date(s) and time(s).
* Number of children and adults.
* Ages of children in your group.
* The area of the Museum you wish to visit and/or the subject of your tour.
* Your preference for either a guided tour or unguided visit.
* If unguided visit preferred, please provide details of duration of your intended visit.
* Does your group have any special needs (wheelchair, non-English speaker, etc)?
http://www.ashmolean.org/learning/booking/
Schools Groups | Saint Malo
workshop duration: 45 min + unguided visit Through a sensory workshop, ... workshop duration: 2h+unguided visit This workshop is a way to show how species ...
www.aquarium-st-malo.com/2007/08/24/schools-groups
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-11-13 20:48:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or there's "unaccompanied tour" here:
An unaccompanied tour of the Museum of Farnham is free.
http://www.waverley.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?d...
and here, though it's headed unguided tours, they have these terms too (but I think self-guided sounds daft)
Unaccompanied and self-guided visits
http://www.musee-orsay.fr/en/visits/groups/unguided-tours.ht...
When calling to make a booking, be prepared with the following information:
* Name, address and telephone number of the school/organization.
* Contact person at the school.
* Preferred date(s) and time(s).
* Number of children and adults.
* Ages of children in your group.
* The area of the Museum you wish to visit and/or the subject of your tour.
* Your preference for either a guided tour or unguided visit.
* If unguided visit preferred, please provide details of duration of your intended visit.
* Does your group have any special needs (wheelchair, non-English speaker, etc)?
http://www.ashmolean.org/learning/booking/
Schools Groups | Saint Malo
workshop duration: 45 min + unguided visit Through a sensory workshop, ... workshop duration: 2h+unguided visit This workshop is a way to show how species ...
www.aquarium-st-malo.com/2007/08/24/schools-groups
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-11-13 20:48:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or there's "unaccompanied tour" here:
An unaccompanied tour of the Museum of Farnham is free.
http://www.waverley.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?d...
and here, though it's headed unguided tours, they have these terms too (but I think self-guided sounds daft)
Unaccompanied and self-guided visits
http://www.musee-orsay.fr/en/visits/groups/unguided-tours.ht...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Mark Nathan
: "I/we walked unguided through the museum"... but "I walked self-guided" is nonsense.
4 hrs
|
|
Yes, quite agree - thanks Mark!
|
18 hrs
Marlene Blanshay
Canada
Canada
Native in English
Canada
business, marketing, IT, social sciences
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, English
open house
in real estate means open house....usually on sundays.
23 hrs
Isabelle Balague
France
France
Native in French
Works in field
France
I write therefore I am
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, French to English
free tour
which does not mean the entry is free
Discussion
Here's hoping French Foodie can strike a blow for us at the Louvre anyway.
Finally (for now), in response to writeaway's vote, I'd say this is the very essence of what a pro question is all about.
'solitary tour', 'self-paced tour', 'personal tour'...anyone game? We might be able to eradicate one term a day..there are many..