Apr 6, 2010 17:34
14 yrs ago
5 viewers *
French term
veine fluide
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Engineering: Industrial
ventilators
I found a translation for this, but would like to know if it makes sense in this context;
'...des angles d'entree et de sortie des pales, permettant la limitation des decollements de la veine fluide et des pertes par chocs, generateurs de tourbillons bruyants.'
The translation I found was 'circulator'.
'...des angles d'entree et de sortie des pales, permettant la limitation des decollements de la veine fluide et des pertes par chocs, generateurs de tourbillons bruyants.'
The translation I found was 'circulator'.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | air flow |
Bourth (X)
|
| 4 | flow |
Stephanie Strobel
|
| 3 | fluid vein |
Isabelle17
|
| 3 | laminar flow |
Terry Richards
|
| 2 | fluid stream |
liz askew
|
References
| LIQUID STREAM |
Chris Hall
|
Proposed translations
2 hrs
Selected
air flow
Since it's a ventilator and not a propellor. There might be a reason for using "fluid" however, or it might just be that the French used fluide where we do not.
Of course it is possible - but probably improbable - that the notion of "air" is already included in veine and that fluide qualifies it meaning something like "smooth, parallel flow" as opposed to turbulent flow. Just an idea. You might have other terms in your doc that might shed light on this ...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2010-04-06 21:18:58 GMT)
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This would appear to support the idea that veine fluide is particular subset of air/fluid flow, given that here there is écoulement outside the veine fluide :
on considere une VEINE FLUIDE EN DEHORS DE LAQUELLE L'ÉCOULEMENT NE CONNAIT PAS DE PERTURABATION
http://heliciel.com/helice/calcul-helice-aile/Theorie de Fro...
Same here, which also brings in several other notions in your text:
Quand un écoulement frotte sur une paroi, il se forme une COUCHE DE FLUIDE RALENTI AU VOISINAGE DE CETTE PAROI, QU'ON APPELLE COUCHE LIMITE et de laquelle dépendent de nombreuses propriétés de l'écoulement (frottement, transferts thermiques et DÉCOLLEMENT éventuel de l'écoulement). La figure ci-contre représente le profil des vitesses u(y) à différentes abcisses x (distance au début de la plaque). On considère que la COUCHE LIMITE EST EN ÉQUILIBRE DE PRESSION AVEC LA VEINE FLUIDE, ce qui est vrai avant l'apparition de la TURBULENCE.
http://mshades.free.fr/modelisation/couchelimite.html
Again:
La longueur de la VEINE FLUIDE est liée à la longueur de la conduite, mais elle est ... l'interface air-eau est situé dans le tube vertical à une hauteur h ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=2710807017...
Were the veine fluide nothing more specific than all the air in a pipe, this would be about the biggest Lapalissade one could say ...
Similarly:
Enfin, l'échauffement que subit l'air au cours de la compression est fonction du ... en conséquence, la veine fluide décolle des ailettes du compresseur. ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=2710804123...
Trop ouvert, il y aura décrochement de la veine fluide et turbulences (le .... Et parler de volume d'air (ou de section de diffuseur) serait ...
communaute.f1-express.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10507...80
For axial fans it is said:
la distance entre la VEINE FLUIDE et l'axe de la roue reste constante
and that
Il résulte de cet éloignement de l'axe une augmentation de la vitesse de l'air, et donc de la pression dynamique qui va s'ajouter à la pression statique créée par les pales
http://www.memoireonline.com/07/09/2369/Conception-dun-syste...
I'm not an expert in fluid mechanics, but I don't see how the "air flow" (in general) can be a greater or lesser distance from the hub of the fan. PART of that air flow, yes, but there has to be something between that PART of the airflow and the hub, and that something has to be a body of air that must be described otherwise than as the veine fluide.
I'm coming to think that veine fluide is something like "non-turbulent air (or water) flow"(given that here we have a veine fluide turbulente ... but I find nothing that corroborates this.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2010-04-07 07:05:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Smooth flow
I'm being lazy and pasting in refs pertaining to several of your questions.
Décollement = flow separation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_separation
SHOCK-INDUCED SEPARATION OF TURBULENT BOUNDARY LAYERS. In recent years, the application of vortex generator jets to control of the dynamic stall produced by ...
www.jafmonline.net/modules/journal/jafmonline4doaj.php?EJsr...
study to control SHOCK INDUCED BOUNDARY LAYER SEPARATION with fluidic vortex generators. He has found that the optimum skew angle is 45°. ...
www.kat-net.com/.../64_20090625_paper_katnet_bremen09_dando...
Even the weak interactions produced VORTEX/SHOCK INDUCED BOUNDARY-LAYER SEPARATION. ... THINNESS, PERTURBATIONS, CONVECTION, FLOW SEPARATION, SHOCK WAVES, ...
oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html...
by MD Fox - 2006 - Cited by 4 - Related articles
separation unique to a supersonic flow : VORTEX-SHOCK INTERACTION or the movement of ..... induced flow separation within the nozzle (e.g. Summerfield, ...
journals.cambridge.org/production/action/cjoGetFulltext?fulltextid
The SHOCK causes localized flow separation on the inboard wing, .... For example, midspan vortex generators provide a solution using this approach in that ...
www.freepatentsonline.com/4643376.html
1. by TV Bazhenova - 2002 - Related articles
The monitoring of evolution of the flow structure behind the SHOCK WAVE allowed us to trace dependence of the time of the VORTEX SHOCK formation on the Mach ...
www.springerlink.com/index/P6773V4G678015Q1.pdf
Solution-related features include SMOOTH NON-DEGENERATED FLOW, stagnation flow, vortex, SHOCK, boundary layer, and flow separation. ...
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.121.6430...
The air molecules at the surface of a wing are effectively stationary (see the no-slip condition). If the flow is SMOOTH, KNOWN AS LAMINAR FLOW, the velocity of the air increases steadily as measurements are taken further away from the surface. However the SMOOTH FLOW is often disturbed by the boundary layer breaking away from the surface and creating a low pressure region immediately behind the airfoil (see flow separation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_layer_suction
In SMOOTH FLOW the wind speed was set to about 10 m/s, and a thin boundary layer was detected at the location of the model, 10 cm thick. ...
linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0167610506000894
If the SMOOTH FLOW of air is interrupted over a wing section, TURBULENCE Is created ... Many influences can act to DESTABILIZE A LAMINAR BOUNDARY LAYER, ...
www.aviation-history.com/theory/lam-flow.htm
However the SMOOTH FLOW is often DISTURBED by the BOUNDARY LAYER BREAKING AWAY FROM THE SURFACE and creating a low pressure region immediately behind the ...
peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Boundary_layer_effect
There are TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF BOUNDARY LAYER FLOW: laminar and turbulent. Laminar Boundary Layer Flow The LAMINAR BOUNDARY LAYER IS A VERY SMOOTH FLOW, ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=1602397805...
Of course it is possible - but probably improbable - that the notion of "air" is already included in veine and that fluide qualifies it meaning something like "smooth, parallel flow" as opposed to turbulent flow. Just an idea. You might have other terms in your doc that might shed light on this ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2010-04-06 21:18:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
This would appear to support the idea that veine fluide is particular subset of air/fluid flow, given that here there is écoulement outside the veine fluide :
on considere une VEINE FLUIDE EN DEHORS DE LAQUELLE L'ÉCOULEMENT NE CONNAIT PAS DE PERTURABATION
http://heliciel.com/helice/calcul-helice-aile/Theorie de Fro...
Same here, which also brings in several other notions in your text:
Quand un écoulement frotte sur une paroi, il se forme une COUCHE DE FLUIDE RALENTI AU VOISINAGE DE CETTE PAROI, QU'ON APPELLE COUCHE LIMITE et de laquelle dépendent de nombreuses propriétés de l'écoulement (frottement, transferts thermiques et DÉCOLLEMENT éventuel de l'écoulement). La figure ci-contre représente le profil des vitesses u(y) à différentes abcisses x (distance au début de la plaque). On considère que la COUCHE LIMITE EST EN ÉQUILIBRE DE PRESSION AVEC LA VEINE FLUIDE, ce qui est vrai avant l'apparition de la TURBULENCE.
http://mshades.free.fr/modelisation/couchelimite.html
Again:
La longueur de la VEINE FLUIDE est liée à la longueur de la conduite, mais elle est ... l'interface air-eau est situé dans le tube vertical à une hauteur h ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=2710807017...
Were the veine fluide nothing more specific than all the air in a pipe, this would be about the biggest Lapalissade one could say ...
Similarly:
Enfin, l'échauffement que subit l'air au cours de la compression est fonction du ... en conséquence, la veine fluide décolle des ailettes du compresseur. ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=2710804123...
Trop ouvert, il y aura décrochement de la veine fluide et turbulences (le .... Et parler de volume d'air (ou de section de diffuseur) serait ...
communaute.f1-express.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10507...80
For axial fans it is said:
la distance entre la VEINE FLUIDE et l'axe de la roue reste constante
and that
Il résulte de cet éloignement de l'axe une augmentation de la vitesse de l'air, et donc de la pression dynamique qui va s'ajouter à la pression statique créée par les pales
http://www.memoireonline.com/07/09/2369/Conception-dun-syste...
I'm not an expert in fluid mechanics, but I don't see how the "air flow" (in general) can be a greater or lesser distance from the hub of the fan. PART of that air flow, yes, but there has to be something between that PART of the airflow and the hub, and that something has to be a body of air that must be described otherwise than as the veine fluide.
I'm coming to think that veine fluide is something like "non-turbulent air (or water) flow"(given that here we have a veine fluide turbulente ... but I find nothing that corroborates this.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2010-04-07 07:05:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Smooth flow
I'm being lazy and pasting in refs pertaining to several of your questions.
Décollement = flow separation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_separation
SHOCK-INDUCED SEPARATION OF TURBULENT BOUNDARY LAYERS. In recent years, the application of vortex generator jets to control of the dynamic stall produced by ...
www.jafmonline.net/modules/journal/jafmonline4doaj.php?EJsr...
study to control SHOCK INDUCED BOUNDARY LAYER SEPARATION with fluidic vortex generators. He has found that the optimum skew angle is 45°. ...
www.kat-net.com/.../64_20090625_paper_katnet_bremen09_dando...
Even the weak interactions produced VORTEX/SHOCK INDUCED BOUNDARY-LAYER SEPARATION. ... THINNESS, PERTURBATIONS, CONVECTION, FLOW SEPARATION, SHOCK WAVES, ...
oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html...
by MD Fox - 2006 - Cited by 4 - Related articles
separation unique to a supersonic flow : VORTEX-SHOCK INTERACTION or the movement of ..... induced flow separation within the nozzle (e.g. Summerfield, ...
journals.cambridge.org/production/action/cjoGetFulltext?fulltextid
The SHOCK causes localized flow separation on the inboard wing, .... For example, midspan vortex generators provide a solution using this approach in that ...
www.freepatentsonline.com/4643376.html
1. by TV Bazhenova - 2002 - Related articles
The monitoring of evolution of the flow structure behind the SHOCK WAVE allowed us to trace dependence of the time of the VORTEX SHOCK formation on the Mach ...
www.springerlink.com/index/P6773V4G678015Q1.pdf
Solution-related features include SMOOTH NON-DEGENERATED FLOW, stagnation flow, vortex, SHOCK, boundary layer, and flow separation. ...
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.121.6430...
The air molecules at the surface of a wing are effectively stationary (see the no-slip condition). If the flow is SMOOTH, KNOWN AS LAMINAR FLOW, the velocity of the air increases steadily as measurements are taken further away from the surface. However the SMOOTH FLOW is often disturbed by the boundary layer breaking away from the surface and creating a low pressure region immediately behind the airfoil (see flow separation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_layer_suction
In SMOOTH FLOW the wind speed was set to about 10 m/s, and a thin boundary layer was detected at the location of the model, 10 cm thick. ...
linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0167610506000894
If the SMOOTH FLOW of air is interrupted over a wing section, TURBULENCE Is created ... Many influences can act to DESTABILIZE A LAMINAR BOUNDARY LAYER, ...
www.aviation-history.com/theory/lam-flow.htm
However the SMOOTH FLOW is often DISTURBED by the BOUNDARY LAYER BREAKING AWAY FROM THE SURFACE and creating a low pressure region immediately behind the ...
peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Boundary_layer_effect
There are TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF BOUNDARY LAYER FLOW: laminar and turbulent. Laminar Boundary Layer Flow The LAMINAR BOUNDARY LAYER IS A VERY SMOOTH FLOW, ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=1602397805...
Note from asker:
| This is all really interesting, Bourth. However, the site Chris Hall refers to appears to give a translation, which is quite reassuring (at least in that context). |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: Well, at least from 'couche limite' we have 'boundary layer'; and I won't mind betting 'laminar flow' is in there somewhere too.
3 hrs
|
|
Yes, I think "laminar flow" is a strong contender.
|
|
| neutral |
chris collister
: Fluid flow is certainly reassuringly neutral, but imagine you have a "vein" of fluid, and there you have a streamline
23 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "It would appear that 'air flow' is the best translation, in the field of ventilators.
Thanks very much, Bourth"
1 hr
fluid stream
Applications - Heat Transfer Simulation of the Month
Similarly, the exhaust was modeled using MuSES's automatic Fluid Stream Generator. The Fluid Stream Generator creates multiple fluid nodes which are ...
www.thermoanalytics.com/applications/mom/mom-09-2005/ - Cached - Similar
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-04-06 18:40:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3061547
générateur tourbillon = vortex generator
Vortex flow meter frequency adjustment - Patent 4437349
by RD Joy - 1984 - Cited by 1 - Related articles
A method for changing the rate of generation of vortices by a vortex generator positioned in a fluid flow duct carrying a fluid stream including varying the ...
www.freepatentsonline.com/4437349.html
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Double Vortex Tube as Heat Exchanger and Flow Impedance for a ...
by M Mitchell - Related articles
flexibility in the choice of vortex generators and cold flow outlets. .... double vortex tube can emit a stream of fluid that is potentially colder than the ...
1 hr
Isabelle17
Brazil
Brazil
Native in English
Works in field
Brazil
Accuracy, Agility & Accountability
Native in: English 
, Portuguese
Works in: Portuguese to French, Portuguese to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
fluid vein
This invention relates to a ventilation unit for cooling systems. .... of the fluid vein from the blade and the consequent generation of vortices. ...
www.wipo.int/pctdb/ja/wo.jsp?WO=2008146155&IA... - Cached
http://www.archive.org/stream/encyclopaediabri030464mbp/ency...
J. N P. Hachette (1769-1834) m 1816-1817 published memoirs
containing the results of experiments on the spouting of fluids and the discharge of vessels. His object was to measure the contracted part of a fluid vein, to examine the phenomena attendant on additional tubes, and to investigate the form of the fluid vein and the results obtained when different forms of orifices are employed. Extensive i
experiments on the discharge of water from orifices (Experiences I
hydrauliques, I>aris, 1832) were conducted under the direction of the , French government by J V. Poncclet (1788-1867) and J A Lesbros
(1790-1860) P P. Boneau (1811-1891) discussed their results and added experiments of his own (Traitt de la mfsure des eaux cour antes,
I'ans, 1854). K. R. Borncmann re-examined all these results with
great care, and gave formulae expressing the variation of the co-
efficients of discharge in different conditions (Civil Ingenieur, 1880)
www.wipo.int/pctdb/ja/wo.jsp?WO=2008146155&IA... - Cached
http://www.archive.org/stream/encyclopaediabri030464mbp/ency...
J. N P. Hachette (1769-1834) m 1816-1817 published memoirs
containing the results of experiments on the spouting of fluids and the discharge of vessels. His object was to measure the contracted part of a fluid vein, to examine the phenomena attendant on additional tubes, and to investigate the form of the fluid vein and the results obtained when different forms of orifices are employed. Extensive i
experiments on the discharge of water from orifices (Experiences I
hydrauliques, I>aris, 1832) were conducted under the direction of the , French government by J V. Poncclet (1788-1867) and J A Lesbros
(1790-1860) P P. Boneau (1811-1891) discussed their results and added experiments of his own (Traitt de la mfsure des eaux cour antes,
I'ans, 1854). K. R. Borncmann re-examined all these results with
great care, and gave formulae expressing the variation of the co-
efficients of discharge in different conditions (Civil Ingenieur, 1880)
Note from asker:
| Thanks very much for this reference, Isabelle. It looks convincing to me, too, but people who know about engineering do not think it is the correct term in English, so I think I should go with that opinion. |
1 hr
flow
They seem to be describing flow separation.
See the link below page 18
See the link below page 18
Example sentence:
limiting flow separation and losses due to shock
13 hrs
Terry Richards
France
France
Native in English
Works in field
France
30 years in IT, Engineering degree.
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK, US)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
50
laminar flow
The whole sentence is talking about when the laminar flow detatches from the blade surface and thus becomes turbulent resulting in power loss and noise.
Reference comments
5 mins
Chris Hall
Native in English
219 témoignages et ils ne cessent pas...
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Reference:
LIQUID STREAM
Source: http://brevets-patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/227...
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Note added at 15 mins (2010-04-06 17:49:21 GMT)
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Alternatively:
flow assurance
Source: http://www.ifp.fr/l-ifp/l-ifp-a-lyon/the-lyre-loop-a-dedicat...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2010-04-06 17:49:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Alternatively:
flow assurance
Source: http://www.ifp.fr/l-ifp/l-ifp-a-lyon/the-lyre-loop-a-dedicat...
Note from asker:
| This looks good, Chris, but what about 'decollements', then? |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| neutral |
chris collister
: "Flow assurance" simply means that engineers have to be sure that they understand the flow regimes of the fluids they are pumping expensively round the country. Turbulence = power loss, so avoid if possible
1 day 2 hrs
|
Discussion