Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
belle heaumière
English translation:
wife of the helmet maker/seller
Added to glossary by
Catharine Cellier-Smart
Jan 23, 2011 10:21
13 yrs ago
French term
belle heaumière
Non-PRO
French to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
this from François Villon's, Les Regrets de la belle Heaumière
the text goes as, "When he reads Villon's 'Testament', he can think only of how ugly the 'belle heaumiére' sounds, wrinkled and unwashed and foulmouthed."
what i actually need is just the literal translation of this 'belle heaumiére'
the text goes as, "When he reads Villon's 'Testament', he can think only of how ugly the 'belle heaumiére' sounds, wrinkled and unwashed and foulmouthed."
what i actually need is just the literal translation of this 'belle heaumiére'
Proposed translations
(English)
References
| Read all about it! |
Bourth (X)
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Change log
Jan 24, 2011 02:59: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "belle heaumiére" to "belle heaumière"
Mar 25, 2011 07:53: Catharine Cellier-Smart Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+3
49 mins
Catharine Cellier-Smart
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Native in English
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The Smart Solution
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: French to English, Creoles & Pidgins (French-based Other) to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
French term (edited):
belle heaumiére
Selected
wife of the helmet maker/seller
according to my dictionary
heaume being "casque d'homme d'armes, Au Moyen Age"
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Note added at 50 mins (2011-01-23 11:11:10 GMT)
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see photos here http://tinyurl.com/49xpw28
heaume being "casque d'homme d'armes, Au Moyen Age"
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Note added at 50 mins (2011-01-23 11:11:10 GMT)
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see photos here http://tinyurl.com/49xpw28
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
BrigitteHilgner
: "beautiful wife ..."
1 min
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Yes. Thank you Brigitte.
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| agree |
Tony M
: Though not forgetting, of course, that it might actually be a female helmet-maker! From the description, she doesn't sound very likely to be anyones wife! Cf. the lady 'forgeronne' in the film 'A Knight's Tale'
8 mins
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Did cross my mind she could be a female helmet-maker, but given the historical period I dismissed the idea (rightly or wrongly !).
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| agree |
Alison Sabedoria (X)
: Could be a wife who helped her husband or who took over his trade as a widow.
5 hrs
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thank you Wordeffect, interesting illustration
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanx!"
8 hrs
French term (edited):
belle heaulmiére
the "beautiful" old helmet maker's wife
I think you have a spelling error here. Should be "heaulmiere" with an "l" and the accent grave, which I cannot do here. (Or maybe both spellings are OK.) In either case, Rodin's famous "Gates of Hell" (bronze doors, c. 1910) includes a shriveled, bent, nude female figure of an old courtesan often called "la belle heaulmiere." The "belle" is used satirically as the woman is really quite ugly and used up. I think this intended contradiction would have to be conveyed somehow in your translation, as would her age, in order to convey an accurate image of the term. I've put quotes around "beutiful" to suggest it is not used literally here.
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Note added at 15 hrs (2011-01-24 02:16:08 GMT)
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Bourth's "find" certainly offers a thorough and fascinating explication! Distilling all that into English is quite a challenge... perhaps, given ALL the cultrally-embedded allusions here, it would be best to leave it in French... and add a footnote. (?)
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Note added at 15 hrs (2011-01-24 02:16:08 GMT)
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Bourth's "find" certainly offers a thorough and fascinating explication! Distilling all that into English is quite a challenge... perhaps, given ALL the cultrally-embedded allusions here, it would be best to leave it in French... and add a footnote. (?)
16 hrs
French term (edited):
belle heaumiére
the once beautiful helmet maker's wife
Posting this as a new idea for incorporating all the allusions of this rather complex term!
22 hrs
beautiful wife of the armour-helmet maker
Helmet maker does not reflect the true meaning of 'Heaume', and is too generic a term.
Reference comments
11 hrs
Reference:
Read all about it!
http://www.paperblog.fr/849780/villon-la-belle-heaulmiere/
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Note added at 21 hrs (2011-01-24 08:01:15 GMT)
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Common enough change:
palm - paume
psaume - palm
voûte - vault
aumône - alms
I think it only strikes us particularly because hea(l)me has vanished from today's French.
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Note added at 21 hrs (2011-01-24 08:15:18 GMT)
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I remember practically nothing of my readings of Villon in my Old French Masters, and nothing at all of this, if I did indeed read it. But looking at the sequel, Ballade de la belle heaumière aux filles de joie, and remembering Villon's 'lewdness', I can't help wondering if heaumière might have caused some smutty mirth (for a reason I cannot explain), in the way reference to la saucissonnière, who is mentioned in the Ballade, might today (for a reason I can). Some play on gentilhommière? (a word which for me has a particular resonance since I've known the local B&B by that name is run by a gay couple!).
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Note added at 21 hrs (2011-01-24 08:01:15 GMT)
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Common enough change:
palm - paume
psaume - palm
voûte - vault
aumône - alms
I think it only strikes us particularly because hea(l)me has vanished from today's French.
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Note added at 21 hrs (2011-01-24 08:15:18 GMT)
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I remember practically nothing of my readings of Villon in my Old French Masters, and nothing at all of this, if I did indeed read it. But looking at the sequel, Ballade de la belle heaumière aux filles de joie, and remembering Villon's 'lewdness', I can't help wondering if heaumière might have caused some smutty mirth (for a reason I cannot explain), in the way reference to la saucissonnière, who is mentioned in the Ballade, might today (for a reason I can). Some play on gentilhommière? (a word which for me has a particular resonance since I've known the local B&B by that name is run by a gay couple!).
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Tony M
: Well found! Makes me feel quite sorry for the old gal!
15 mins
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| agree |
Veronica Coquard
: Thank you, Bourth! We learn something every day!
18 hrs
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Discussion
Interesting to note that Bourth's ref. mentions the etymology of heau(l)me, referring to modern Dutch and German, but is surprisingly silent about the EN version of 'helm', and of course 'helmet'. Etymological chauvinism?
and an interesting article on medieval women's lives: http://www.strangehorizons.com/2001/20010528/medieval_women....
Robert & Collins = helmet maker