Jul 3, 2013 12:48
10 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
France
19 years of experience; 21-year resident
Native in: English (Variants: US, British)
Works in: French to English, English
shuntée
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Petroleum Eng/Sci
Valves
"la vanne automatique de sécurité est inactive (shuntée en position ouverte à la suite d’un dysfonctionnement du réseau pneumatique quelques jours avant)"
This is from a document describing damage caused at an oil refinery by the 2011 Tohoku earthquake and tsunami. Obviously, it means the valve was stuck open. But is there an equivalent technical term for "shuntée" in English in this context?
This is from a document describing damage caused at an oil refinery by the 2011 Tohoku earthquake and tsunami. Obviously, it means the valve was stuck open. But is there an equivalent technical term for "shuntée" in English in this context?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | stuck open |
Daryo
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| 4 +3 | shunted |
Cyril B.
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| 3 +1 | overridden to 'open' |
Tony M
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Proposed translations
19 hrs
French term (edited):
shuntée en position ouverte
Selected
stuck open
it's not obvious is this safety valve is open or close by default.
It could be either. The safety valve could be designed to open in case of, for example, excessive pressure and let the flow bypass some obstacle, or the safety valve could be meant to close in case of drop of pressure, to stop a leakage further down the line.
"shuntée en position ouverte" could mean a "safety bypass" was stuck open (while it shouldn't be open except in case of emergency) - if elsewhere in the ST you can check if it's the case, the translation could be adapted accordingly, but all we know for sure is that it's stuck open.
It could be either. The safety valve could be designed to open in case of, for example, excessive pressure and let the flow bypass some obstacle, or the safety valve could be meant to close in case of drop of pressure, to stop a leakage further down the line.
"shuntée en position ouverte" could mean a "safety bypass" was stuck open (while it shouldn't be open except in case of emergency) - if elsewhere in the ST you can check if it's the case, the translation could be adapted accordingly, but all we know for sure is that it's stuck open.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: I agree with your reasoning, but would like more confirmation of the context to know the real degree of 'stuckness' here / Yup, agree with your last comment
12 mins
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if the control mechanism (réseau pneumatique) is gone and the valve is "inactive", it does sound like "stuck for good" to me; seems that for the time being the valve is of not much use...
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3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, everyone, for your helpful input. I'm going with Daryo's suggestion as it seems to me to be on the same level as the French. I will add a note to the client asking for more information."
+3
5 mins
shunted
:)
Note from asker:
| @Cyril: I appreciate your suggestion, but I'm not sure if "shunted" is the right answer here. Before posting my query, I did some googling, but didn't find any reliable hits. That's why I don't think that "shunted" is right. Can you quote any sources or direct me to any sites? |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jean-Claude Gouin
: En passant, 'shuntée' ne devrait pas être utilisé en français ...
14 mins
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Merci M. 45 :)
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| neutral |
Tony M
: As Asker says, I'm far from convinced this would apply here; something of a faux ami, I fear
1 hr
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| agree |
philgoddard
: Not a faux ami at all. It means pushed or moved, and it also has an electrical meaning. Whichever is the case here, the word is the same. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shunt
1 hr
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Merci Phil
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| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I've seen the term "shunter" used for "shunt" in French quite a lot and in diverse contexts : medical, engineering, mechanics. 1045 is right; it is not "good" FR, although it is used in French with the same meaning as in EN. A synon. wld be fine too.
6 hrs
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Merci Nikki
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+1
1 hr
French term (edited):
shunté en position ouverte
overridden to 'open'
Difficult to be sure, since we don't know the exact situation; it looks as if the pneumatic system of this safety valve fails safe to 'open' in the even of a pneumatic failure, but it is not clear what the 'safe' position of this safety valve is; one might have assumed 'open' to be the safe position. So it possibly means that the safety valve was stuck in its 'open' (i.e. safe?) position — in which case, we'd need to know whay that was a problem?
Either way, do be wary of the faux ami of the FR usage of 'shunter' and the original EN use of 'to shunt'; the basic meaning in EN is to bypass something (cf. shunt resistor in electronics) BUT when used in FR, it takes on a wider sense of 'to over-ride'. If a valve were open, then there would be no technical logic in literally bypassing it; but here, we can note that it is 'shuntée' in a particular position.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-07-03 19:25:48 GMT)
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Do please note that 'to shunt' in EN is used in certain specific fields: obviously, shunting trains; then shunting a circuit (electrical or other fluids); and in the more colloquial use "shunt your a*** over here and take a look".
BUT it is used in FR in a much wider range of circumstances, where it simply will not work in EN — which is why I insist there is a faux ami risk here. None of the dictionary definitions provided are inconsistent with anything I've said; but in technical language, you have to use it just right, and dictionaries are a very long way from telling the whole story on that issue!
One could certainly shunt a closed valve — one could bypass it if it was say rusted shut; but one cannot say 'bypass' or 'shunt' in the same way for a valve that is already open!
Here, the FR meaning is clearly that I have suggested, of the idea of 'to over-ride' (though using the expression as such is rather awkward in EN); if you think about it, this is only an extension of the usual meaning in EN: to bypass something simply means to circumvent it... or in other words, over-ride it; except that this extension of the meaning in FR goes way beyond what is normal usage in EN.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-07-03 19:29:01 GMT)
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No-one doubts that 'shunter' in FR can be (and frequently is) used for 'to shunt' in EN; but the reverse is not invariably true.
As I have already explained at great length, the meaning has been extended and somewhat skewed in FR, such that the EN verb 'to shunt' cannot always be used to translate the FR verb 'shunter'.
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Note added at 19 hrs (2013-07-04 08:38:46 GMT)
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Funnily enough, FR often uses 'forcer' with the sense of 'override', and I can't help wondering if here, even in EN, 'to force' mightn't be a good solution (depending on that missing context!)
The valve is being forced into the open position because of an earlier pneumatic system failure.
Either way, do be wary of the faux ami of the FR usage of 'shunter' and the original EN use of 'to shunt'; the basic meaning in EN is to bypass something (cf. shunt resistor in electronics) BUT when used in FR, it takes on a wider sense of 'to over-ride'. If a valve were open, then there would be no technical logic in literally bypassing it; but here, we can note that it is 'shuntée' in a particular position.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2013-07-03 19:25:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Do please note that 'to shunt' in EN is used in certain specific fields: obviously, shunting trains; then shunting a circuit (electrical or other fluids); and in the more colloquial use "shunt your a*** over here and take a look".
BUT it is used in FR in a much wider range of circumstances, where it simply will not work in EN — which is why I insist there is a faux ami risk here. None of the dictionary definitions provided are inconsistent with anything I've said; but in technical language, you have to use it just right, and dictionaries are a very long way from telling the whole story on that issue!
One could certainly shunt a closed valve — one could bypass it if it was say rusted shut; but one cannot say 'bypass' or 'shunt' in the same way for a valve that is already open!
Here, the FR meaning is clearly that I have suggested, of the idea of 'to over-ride' (though using the expression as such is rather awkward in EN); if you think about it, this is only an extension of the usual meaning in EN: to bypass something simply means to circumvent it... or in other words, over-ride it; except that this extension of the meaning in FR goes way beyond what is normal usage in EN.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2013-07-03 19:29:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
No-one doubts that 'shunter' in FR can be (and frequently is) used for 'to shunt' in EN; but the reverse is not invariably true.
As I have already explained at great length, the meaning has been extended and somewhat skewed in FR, such that the EN verb 'to shunt' cannot always be used to translate the FR verb 'shunter'.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2013-07-04 08:38:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Funnily enough, FR often uses 'forcer' with the sense of 'override', and I can't help wondering if here, even in EN, 'to force' mightn't be a good solution (depending on that missing context!)
The valve is being forced into the open position because of an earlier pneumatic system failure.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Alberto Bertelli
2 hrs
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Merci, Alberot !
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| neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: No reason not to use "shunt" which is not a false friend. Not yet, although that may change as it becomes perverted over time. Yes, it means bypass, but it also means to push sthng over to the other side :http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shunt
4 hrs
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Sorry, Nikki, I simply can't agree; you cannot 'shunt' a valve open. / The definitions you quote don't fit the context here.
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| neutral |
Daryo
: "override" would mean a properly functioning control mechanism takes over / has priority over another properly functioning control mechanism ; here we are dealing with a malfunctioning safety device.
18 hrs
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I don't agree with your restrictive def. of 'o/ride', but I agree it may not be the best choice of term here
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Discussion