فالولد للفراش

English translation: Paternity of the child goes to the (marital) bed

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Arabic term or phrase:فالولد للفراش
English translation:Paternity of the child goes to the (marital) bed
Entered by: MElHelw

18:42 Oct 31, 2004
Arabic to English translations [PRO]
Religion / hadith
Arabic term or phrase: فالولد للفراش
I'm trying to find the best translation for this hadith.
Dana Leigh
Paternity of the child goes to the (marital) bed
Explanation:
Because it is part of a hadith, it is now a sort of sharia'a (canonical law). The child's father is decided by the marital bed.
N.B. I tend to agree with ArabicSoft and Aisha Maniar. In the narration provided by Aisha the man whom the prophet said was the father is probably the husband.
N.B. 2) Since there are two versions of the hadith, probably the last part is not wholly agreed upon (please note that asker only mentioned the first part).

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Note added at 7 hrs 55 mins (2004-11-01 02:37:52 GMT)
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As per site quoted by Nabil Baradey. Story as follows
سعد بن أبي وقاص (أخ لـ عتبة بن أبي وقاص) : \"أوصاني أخي إذا قدمت يعني مكة أن أقبض إليك ابن أمة زمعة فإنه ابني\" . ‏

فلما كان يوم الفتح رأى سعد الغلام فعرفه بالشبه فاحتضنه وقال ابن أخي ورب الكعبة \" وفي رواية الليث \" فقال سعد يا رسول الله هذا ابن أخي عتبة بن أبي وقاص عهد إلى أنه ابنه \"

\" فجاء عبد بن زمعة فقال بل هو أخي ولد على فراش أبي من جاريته \" وفي رواية يونس \" يا رسول الله هذا أخي هذا ابن زمعة ولد على فراشه\"

قال الخطابي وتبعه عياض والقرطبي وغيرهما : كان أهل الجاهلية يقتنون الولائد ويقررون عليهن الضرائب فيكتسبن بالفجور , وكانوا يلحقون النسب بالزناة إذا ادعوا الولد كما في النكاح , وكانت لزمعة أمة وكان يلم بها فظهر بها حمل زعم عتبة بن أبي وقاص أنه منه وعهد إلى أخيه سعد أن يستلحقه , فخاصم فيه عبد بن زمعة , فقال لي سعد : هو ابن أخي على ما كان عليه الأمر في الجاهلية , وقال عبد : هو أخي على ما استقر عليه الأمر في الإسلام , فأبطل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم حكم الجاهلية وألحقه بزمعة , وأبدل عياض قوله إذا ادعوا الولد بقوله إذا اعترفت به الأم , وبنى عليهما القرطبي فقال : ولم يكن حصل إلحاقه بعتبة في الجاهلية إما لعدم الدعوى وإما لكون الأم لم تعترف به لعتبة
At around the time of entering Mecca in victory the prophet over ruled the gahiliyya habits of paternity when father is doubted and imposed this new rule of \"child goes to the marital - or ma malkat aymanuhumu - bed\".
Selected response from:

MElHelw
Local time: 15:39
Grading comment
While there is not a definitive translation, this one is the best fit for the context while still being at least somewhat "politically correct" and less jarring to readers without knowledge of hadith. thank you.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1The baby is for the owner of the bed, and the share of the prostitute is the stone.
ArabicSoft
5 +1The child goes to the mother, and the adultorer has only the shame
Nabil Baradey
5The boy is for (the owner of) the bed ....
Aisha Maniar
5Only by proper marriages in line with one's religion he will own his baby virtually not by adultery
Imran Rajani
5The child belongs to the parties of marriage, and fornicator would be punished by stone.
Arabicstart
5 -1The child (born) is to be related to the husband , or master ,
Suleiman Al Saqer
4Paternity of the child goes to the (marital) bed
MElHelw
3 -1the baby is to his cradle, and the adulterer to be stoned, and that is what the Prophet said
Sabry Hameed


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
فالولد للفراش وع
The child (born) is to be related to the husband , or master ,


Explanation:
The child born(love son) is to be related to the husband or master, and the woman conducted illegal love is to be killed with stones.

Being a piece of authentic Hadieth narrated in Bukhari, Muslim and othe Hadieth books .

The case over a love son ........ was brought up before the prophet , peace be upon him . and He judged as a bove ........

Suleiman Al Saqer
Jordan
Local time: 15:39
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Arabic
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Nabil Baradey: On the contrary! See my answer below.
58 mins
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
فالولد للفراش وع
the baby is to his cradle, and the adulterer to be stoned, and that is what the Prophet said


Explanation:
the baby is to his cradle, and the prostitute to be stoned, and that is what the Prophet said


Sabry Hameed
Egypt
Local time: 15:39
Native speaker of: Arabic
PRO pts in category: 10

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Nabil Baradey: The bed here means the woman, and the stone here should not be taken literally. Please see my answer and link below
1 day 1 hr
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
فالولد للفراش وع
The boy is for (the owner of) the bed ....


Explanation:
"and the stone is for the person who commits illegal sexual intercourse.' Narrated by Abu Huraira(R).

That's the full hadith in English quoted in Sahih Al-Bukhari, one of the six main collections of hadith. The following is the full version (there are two versions, long and short, narrated by two different people).

Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abd bin Zam'a quarrelled with each other (regarding a child). The Prophet said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abd bin Zam'a, for the boy is for (the owner) of the bed. O Sauda ! Screen yourself from the boy." The sub-narrator, Al-Laith added (that the Prophet also said), "And the stone is for the person who commits an illegal sexual intercourse."

Hadith normally require the context in which they occurred/were uttered to make sense. I assume you have more context. I have seen this particular hadith in English (Islamic) texts on cloning and women in Islam.


Aisha Maniar
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 59

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Asghar Bhatti
3 hrs
  -> thank you

neutral  ArabicSoft: Great background, Aisha. Thank you.
20 hrs

disagree  Nabil Baradey: See the link I provided below
1 day 1 hr
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
الولد للفراش وللعاهر الحجر
The baby is for the owner of the bed, and the share of the prostitute is the stone.


Explanation:
Please check out an excellent translation of 54 sayings of Prophet Mohammed on this website:
http://www.rafed.net/books/other-lang/almawaez/05.html

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Note added at 1 hr 16 mins (2004-10-31 19:59:12 GMT)
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أخرج النسائي عن أبي وائل عن عبد اللّه بن مسعود عن رسول اللّه، قال: الولد للفراش وللعاهر الحجر.
هذا نص الحديث النبوي كاملاً

ArabicSoft
United Arab Emirates
Local time: 16:39
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Asghar Bhatti
2 hrs
  -> Thank you Asghar Bhatti.

agree  Hanan Ghannoum
12 hrs
  -> Thank you ghhanan.

disagree  Nabil Baradey: What does the "owner of the bed" mean? Should the child be taken by a hotel owner if born in a hotel!?. Arabs call one's woman his "bed". Could you read the link I put below? 2- The word "prostitute" refers to the woman. But the Prophet meant the man.
1 day 39 mins
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
فالولد للفراش
Only by proper marriages in line with one's religion he will own his baby virtually not by adultery


Explanation:
It's a Hadith of the Prophet of Islam and the second part shows the punishment for adultery that they'll be stoned and not own baby by adultory. (Marriag in the Islamic AHadith means according to one's religion, it's not limited to Islam)

Imran Rajani
Pakistan
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in UrduUrdu
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
فالولد للفراش
Paternity of the child goes to the (marital) bed


Explanation:
Because it is part of a hadith, it is now a sort of sharia'a (canonical law). The child's father is decided by the marital bed.
N.B. I tend to agree with ArabicSoft and Aisha Maniar. In the narration provided by Aisha the man whom the prophet said was the father is probably the husband.
N.B. 2) Since there are two versions of the hadith, probably the last part is not wholly agreed upon (please note that asker only mentioned the first part).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs 55 mins (2004-11-01 02:37:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As per site quoted by Nabil Baradey. Story as follows
سعد بن أبي وقاص (أخ لـ عتبة بن أبي وقاص) : \"أوصاني أخي إذا قدمت يعني مكة أن أقبض إليك ابن أمة زمعة فإنه ابني\" . ‏

فلما كان يوم الفتح رأى سعد الغلام فعرفه بالشبه فاحتضنه وقال ابن أخي ورب الكعبة \" وفي رواية الليث \" فقال سعد يا رسول الله هذا ابن أخي عتبة بن أبي وقاص عهد إلى أنه ابنه \"

\" فجاء عبد بن زمعة فقال بل هو أخي ولد على فراش أبي من جاريته \" وفي رواية يونس \" يا رسول الله هذا أخي هذا ابن زمعة ولد على فراشه\"

قال الخطابي وتبعه عياض والقرطبي وغيرهما : كان أهل الجاهلية يقتنون الولائد ويقررون عليهن الضرائب فيكتسبن بالفجور , وكانوا يلحقون النسب بالزناة إذا ادعوا الولد كما في النكاح , وكانت لزمعة أمة وكان يلم بها فظهر بها حمل زعم عتبة بن أبي وقاص أنه منه وعهد إلى أخيه سعد أن يستلحقه , فخاصم فيه عبد بن زمعة , فقال لي سعد : هو ابن أخي على ما كان عليه الأمر في الجاهلية , وقال عبد : هو أخي على ما استقر عليه الأمر في الإسلام , فأبطل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم حكم الجاهلية وألحقه بزمعة , وأبدل عياض قوله إذا ادعوا الولد بقوله إذا اعترفت به الأم , وبنى عليهما القرطبي فقال : ولم يكن حصل إلحاقه بعتبة في الجاهلية إما لعدم الدعوى وإما لكون الأم لم تعترف به لعتبة
At around the time of entering Mecca in victory the prophet over ruled the gahiliyya habits of paternity when father is doubted and imposed this new rule of \"child goes to the marital - or ma malkat aymanuhumu - bed\".


MElHelw
Local time: 15:39
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
While there is not a definitive translation, this one is the best fit for the context while still being at least somewhat "politically correct" and less jarring to readers without knowledge of hadith. thank you.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
فالولد للفراش وع
The child goes to the mother, and the adultorer has only the shame


Explanation:
This is as near to the meaning as it can get.
هذا حديث لرسول الله يبين فيه أنه عندما تقع حادثة زنى (كما كان يحدث في الجاهلية مع ذوات الرايات اللواتي يمارسن الجنس مع كثير من الرجال) فإن نسب الولد يلحق بأمه، أما الرجل العاهر فليس له سوى الخيبة والخذلان. والوقائع على ذلك كثيرة، ومنها ما أخذه الفقهاء على استلحاق معاوية بن أبي سفيان لزياد ابن أبيه بنسبه، إذ اعتبر الفقهاء ذلك مخالفة صريحة للسنة النبوية. والفراش هنا يعني المرأة، لأن الرجل حين يضاجعها يجعلها بمثابة فراشه

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Note added at 1 hr 22 mins (2004-10-31 20:04:53 GMT)
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نص الحديث هو (الولد للفراش، وللعاهر الحجر)، وليس على العاهر الحجر

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Note added at 1 hr 24 mins (2004-10-31 20:07:17 GMT)
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كما أن الحجر هنا لا يعني الرجم، بل مجرد الخيبة، وهو تعبير تستعمله العرب للدلالة على العودة بخفي حنين كما يقال

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Note added at 1 day 1 hr 59 mins (2004-11-01 20:42:32 GMT)
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This is taken from my link below:
‏قوله ( الولد للفراش وللعاهر الحجر ) ‏
‏قوله \" وللعاهر الحجر \" أي للزاني الخيبة والحرمان , والعهر بفتحتين الزنا , وقيل يختص بالليل , ومعنى الخيبة هنا حرمان الولد الذي يدعيه , وجرت عادة العرب أن تقول لمن خاب \" له الحجر وبفيه الحجر والتراب \" ونحو ذلك , وقيل : المراد بالحجر هنا أنه يرجم , قال النووي : وهو ضعيف ; لأن الرجم مختص بالمحصن , ولأنه لا يلزم من رجمه نفي الولد , والخبر إنما سيق لنفي الولد . وقال السبكي : والأول أشبه بمساق الحديث لتعم الخيبة كل زان , ودليل الرجم , مأخوذ من موضع آخر فلا حاجة للتخصيص من غير دليل . قلت : ويؤيد الأول أيضا ما أخرجه أبو أحمد الحاكم من حديث زيد بن أرقم رفعه \" الولد للفراش وفي فم العاهر الحجر


    Reference: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=9&ID=2632...
Nabil Baradey
Local time: 16:39
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Asghar Bhatti
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Asghar
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
فالولد للفراش
The child belongs to the parties of marriage, and fornicator would be punished by stone.


Explanation:
The Holy prophet Mohhammad (PBUH) said: “The child belongs to the parties of marriage, and fornicator would be punished by stone. “This “Hadith” referred to the one of the important rules in Islamic jurisprudence. In Civil Law, we face this rule (code 1158) referred to as “presumption of legitimacy”. By this rule, the “lineage would be established. In another word, we have a general principle based on which the child belong to the parties of marriage unless the opposite would be established in the future. But the child born by fornication, does not have legal lineage with fornicator as well as fornicator as well as fornicatress. The second part of this “Hadith” says to us if the man who committed fornication was married was married, he would be regarded as a “adulterer” and would be punished to death

good luck

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Note added at 1 day 8 hrs 42 mins (2004-11-02 03:24:49 GMT)
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(127) http://www.rafed.net/books/aqaed/alfusool/07.html
http://arabic.islamicweb.com/sunni/reply_saqqaf_4.htm
http://vob.org/arabic/Tajnees/new_page_2_9.htm
الفرق بين زواج المتعة والزنا
http://www.14masom.com/hkaek-mn-tareek/13.htm

Arabicstart
Local time: 08:39
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 7
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